Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
I am in exact same boat. Mine was when I was doing my taxes on the computer and turned my head (after training 5 days that week) Felt tightness, then extreme pain in my back. Then the pain went to my tricep and forearm. After the steroid pack the pain subsided yet I was so weak I could not even do 1 push up. It was mentally draining. I continue to train 5 days/week yet progress is slow. I am now up to 34 push ups yet my tricep and pec are still not responding the way the should. My MRI and EMG show I have narrowing of the canal in my C7. I have been doing traction every night for 15 min, then I use the tens treatment, then I ice everything. I am type A and do this religiously. I have definitely improved but want these muscles to "fire" again. The muscle loss occured so fast I thought I had some major disorder. Please update me with any of your progress.
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Do you have any current updates on your condition? I am going through exact same thing. It is mentally draining.....
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
Quote:
I am in exact same boat. Mine was when I was doing my taxes on the computer and turned my head (after training 5 days that week) Felt tightness, then extreme pain in my back. Then the pain went to my tricep and forearm. After the steroid pack the pain subsided yet I was so weak I could not even do 1 push up. It was mentally draining. I continue to train 5 days/week yet progress is slow. I am now up to 34 push ups yet my tricep and pec are still not responding the way the should. My MRI and EMG show I have narrowing of the canal in my C7. I have been doing traction every night for 15 min, then I use the tens treatment, then I ice everything. I am type A and do this religiously. I have definitely improved but want these muscles to "fire" again. The muscle loss occured so fast I thought I had some major disorder. Please update me with any of your progress.
- - - Updated - - -
Do you have any current updates on your condition? I am going through exact same thing. It is mentally draining.....
Roughly 3 months out from the first time I felt the loss of strength. I would say my right side is about 90% or so of what it used to be, I'm able to dumbbell press 50lbs each side for 12 reps x 5 fairly easily, and push-ups are back to 100 straight. Since having the MRI and nerve studies, and being diagnosed with the severe stenosis, I try to stretch my neck as much as I can with chin tucks and scalene muscle stretches. I found that when performing a chin tuck, and then tilting my head to the opposite side of the stenosis (thereby expanding the canal in which the nerve root runs), seemed to help a bit.
7 Kinds of Neck Exercises : Chiropractic Stretches & Tips - YouTube
I have incorporated a daily 15 pull-up, 30 push-up, 20 dip x 4 circuit to my daily routine, also targeting my triceps with some resistance band/cable work. I've tried to improve my grip strength with these rubber grip rings (50 each hand in the car while driving x4).
I have a follow up with my neurosurgeon in another 4 weeks, I'll give another update then, or if anything else comes up in the meanwhile. My best advice is to keep at it, and the progress will eventually happen. Human bodies are fairly resilient if you give them the chance to heal.
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
Swygart2, do you have any update on your injury? Mine occurred Feb 10, 2019, I am now 5 months in. My strength has definitely improved yet I am no where near where I used to be. My tricep (left arm) is over an inch smaller than my right and upper portion of my chest is still significantly smaller. Did your muscle recover? Have you had any more complications? I has been a competitive bodybuilder for over 15 years but now stay active training everyday but not competitively. It is mentally wearing on me w how quickly the muscle loss occurred. Just want to get it back......i have stenosis that has caused my issues...
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
How has the muscle recovery been? My strength is coming back yet the tricep and upper chest are still not firing. I wish you the best on your recovery, any help would be appreciated.
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
I've just quickly skimmed this thread; I apologize if I've missed some things. A couple questions that could help direct treatment:
1) Do you have altered sensation (numbness and tingling), and if so, where specifically in the arm?
2) Has anyone been checked for thoracic outlet syndrome? I see this quite often.
You should be aware that imaging is rarely a good way to diagnose an issue. See Are your x-ray and MRI results helpful or harmful? - YouTube
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
1) Only numbness is in left index finger. Minimal dull pain in base of neck and do have occasional pain near collar bone.
2) No one has checked this, how do you test for it? I see the neurosurgeon July 22nd.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!!!
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
I thought I'd throw my story into the thread since it's so similar to those who posted before me. I can only offer prognosis data, as I can't afford medical care. I'm not looking for diagnosis, just to offer my story which can hopefully help pros or others.
Origin of injury: No flu shots. No significant medical issues or history. 35 yrs old, resistance training average 4 times a week since age 14. Early January, 2019. I slept on the couch, which I rarely do, and woke the next morning with severe pain and stiffness in my left shoulder blade/left rhombic area and left side of neck. My wife was scheduled to be inducted for the birth of our child, so we headed to the hospital that night. During a two night hospital stay, due to complications during delivery, my condition worsened to the point of having to hold my head tilted to the left. I normally refuse to take medication, but caved and took some Ibuprofen, but it didn't help at all.
When we got back home, brand new baby in tow, I went to do my first workout since the "stiff neck incident". I normally start with pushups. That's when I got depressed, as I went to lower myself to the floor, my left side gave out and I collapsed flat on my belly. I noted that my left pec and left tricep were essentially powerless and wouldn't flex normally, only slightly. I panicked and began trying tricep pulldowns, my right arm was completely normal strength and flex. My left arm couldn't even move the cable. On the bench, I tried barbell presses, but my normal weight was impossible on the left side, right side was normal.
Over the next few weeks, I did chin tucks, which felt tight in the left rhombic region. I did weighted neck traction with an over-the-door-device. I started sleeping on a memory foam mat on the floor and bought a neck chiro-pillow to sleep with. None of these things provided relief.
0-3 months after the incident: I stopped working out. My triceps would twitch randomly. The pain and stiffness in the left rhombic/neck areas faded very slowly, took about 2 months. I began losing touch sensation in my left pointer and left thumb, could feel pressure sensations though. If I leaned my head back, in a looking at the sky position, after about 10-15 seconds a pins and needles sensation would begin flowing from my left shoulder/upper bicep to my left hand. The longer I held my head in that position, the more intense the pins and needles would get. When I aimed my head back down to a level sight position, the tingling would begin subsiding instantly and vanish completely within a few seconds.
4-6 months after the incident: Still have low activation in left pec and left tricep, and those muscles are still soft. All pain/stiffness is basically gone. Touch sensation returned, maybe SLIGHTLY muted. The "looking at the sky" tingling does not happen anymore. I began a modified resistance training regimen using low weight dumbbells, so I could isolate right and left side strength. I only do on the right side what I can do on the left side, to hopefully maintain body symmetry. The left side fatigues faster than the right side during workouts. My left side makes very slow gains, I had to buy fractional olympic weights so I could attempt to make strength progress.
Today (7+ months): Still no improvement to strength or muscle hardness in left pec or tricep. No pain, tingling, stiffness. The only notable anomaly that remains is after my cable back workout, if i try to touch my shoulder blades together, it feels like a balled muscle in my left rhombic area. This dissipates by the next day.
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
Quote:
1) Only numbness is in left index finger. Minimal dull pain in base of neck and do have occasional pain near collar bone.
2) No one has checked this, how do you test for it? I see the neurosurgeon July 22nd.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!!!
How was your visit at the surgeon? Was an EMG recommended?
I'd check for an elevated first rib. And consider the possibility of having a cervical rib.
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
Hello,
This may help some of you. I woke up one morning in March of 2018 with a stiff neck from what i thought to be sleeping wrong. I went about my day cause this was not the first stiff neck i ever had. But when i went to the gym that night, while attempting to warm up with dumbbell shoulder presses , my left arm went straight up and my right arm would not budge. These were 40lb dumbbells. I usually warm up with those and go up to 70lbs by the end of the workout. I forced 5 reps out of my right arm but knew something was wrong. I thought it was tendinitis or something, being that i played baseball and had it before . But next workout same thing on chest day i could not bench 135lbs, i could not even do 5 push ups. I then started to notice my right tricep wasting away. I went to an onsite doctor at work, he tested all my movements and said you should be fine. I kept working out everyday lifting what i could which was nothing. It is now November and i have went from not being able to bench alot or do much weight on my triceps to now seeing my tricep gaining muscle and benched 275 once . I get strong every week but my right is still alot weaker then my left. It is coming back i never went to the doctor or got checked. I just googled and found many people with the same issue. My bicep and tricep are still pretty soft but getting bigger. Its been 9 months and i have seen alot of progress, i read somewhere it takes a full 2 years to get back to 100%. I feel i will be there in about 18 months. One thing i did was i kept working out the entire time. I never stopped which may be why i am ahead of the curve. Good luck to you all.
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
Hi, I had a very similar problem to many of you on this thread, and thought it might be useful to some of you to relate my own experience.
I lost all strength in my left tricep after no apparent trauma or other injury (detected by being unable to even hold up my body on triceps dips), and felt instinctively that it was due to the fact that like many others on this thread, I always slept on my side, and regularly switched sides during sleep.
Over a period of several days, the condition worsened and I developed numbness in the fingers of my left hand. Even a single press-up was impossible, so it was fairly obvious that as my pain wasn’t very intense, it must be a nerve problem.
I went to see my Physician who sent me for an MRI, which revealed that I had a herniated disc in my neck, which he diagnosed as the likely cause. But having done my own Google research, my symptoms and results of the tests shown on YouTube had indicated that a nerve pinch in the Upper Thoracic Outlet was more likely the cause.
I decided to see an Osteopath, who didn’t even look at my MRI scan photos, but instead proceeded to do some of the tests I’d tried myself from YouTube, plus some others. He told me that in his view, though he didn’t doubt that I had a herniated disc, the most likely cause of my nerve pinching was pinching in the Upper Thoracic outlet. He gave me two sessions of intensive massage around the pec and trap surrounding the Thoracic outlet and things immediately began to improve.
He told me that many people actually go through their whole lives with a herniated disc and never experience any symptoms, so it can be a bit of a red herring in diagnosis.
Returning to likely causes, I think that bodybuilders in particularly are vulnerable to this injury if they sleep on their side, because their shoulders are very broad. Unless they have a large stack of firm pillows, there is a tendency for the upper-side shoulder to collapse forward during sleep to compensate for the large gap between the head and under-side shoulder that would otherwise cause discomfort. So for prevention, I think learning to sleep on your back is a good strategy.
So much for the cause and diagnosis. Nine months after my initial injury I still have significant atrophy of the left tricep. I have found that the best means to encourage improvement has been to do hammer triceps extensions, because through trial and error, this is the exercise that showed the greatest disparity between the injured and uninjured triceps in terms of strength. I have seen a definite, though slow, improvement in strength, but the atrophy is still there. I’m assuming that this is just going to be a very slow process of re-activating neural pathways somehow, so will need to be patient.
I have found that flat bench pressing seems to aggravate the injury and have stopped doing it altogether now, but strangely inclined bench press seems to be ok (certainly nowhere near as bad at least). Not doing bench pressing is hugely frustrating, as I lost at least 10 pounds of upper body muscle mass, I’m sure due to the lack of heavy bench pressing. But I just have to take the long view and let nature do its thing. Good luck to all of you suffering the same symptoms, I hope my experience in some small way is of use to you.
Incidentally, a side note about Physicians and diagnosis in all this. I’m not a Physician, and I know that self-diagnosis via Google must always be done with extreme care and perspective. That said, I have much more time to research my condition than the few minutes my Physician can afford me, and my motivation for correct diagnosis is far higher, regardless of how professional he/she is. I’m an Engineer by profession, and I would never presume to know everything about my own narrow field of the subject. A Physician can’t be expected to know everything about a far more complex system than any I will ever work on. The difference between our professions is that by the human nature of his work, his clients expect a definitive diagnosis, whereas mine understand that I can’t always provide it. I say all this because whilst you may be fortunate to find a Physician who fully understands and is able to accurately diagnose your condition, this is in practice often quite a tall order, so doing a bit of your own research, like reading this thread, even if it only leads you to seek advice from another professional, is time well spent in my opinion.
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
Reading through this thread has been great and has at least helped me appreciate that there are others out there that have had similar issues to myself.
As a history, back in 2016 I had a run in with severe back pain and muscle spasms that impacted my upper right back and shoulder area, as well as going down my right arm. This pain was severe and it lasted months but eventually subsided. I never did strength tests at the time and was not actively training or anything so I can't if there were any muscle issues. I did have an MRI at that time which showed minor narrowing of the spinal canal at C5/C6 and a bulging disc with moderate stenosis at C6/C7. An EMG was done as well which seemed to show abnormal readings that coincided with the MRI's evaluation. This is what was explained as the cause of my issues and I went through PT and regular McKenzie stretches to improve the situation. Eventually things improved and I went back to life as normal.
Fast forward to just before New Years this past December and I just went to lie down one night and as I laid down for no reason that I can tell my right shoulder and upper back pain just lit up like mad. I could barely even sleep that night the pain was so bad and I could only get even the slightest relief by stacking 2 pillows to elevate my head and then turn my head left and down so my chin was tucked against my shoulder. Maintaining that position was the only way I could reduce the pain whatsoever even with naproxen. I went to the doctor and was given a course of Prednisolone oral steroids and some Tizanidine to calm the muscles. Over a few weeks the pain steadily moved from the shoulder down the arm and the eventually subsided to the point I can I only trigger it with specific neck movements (looking far to the right or with McKenzie chin tucks).
However, this is when I started to notice the tricep weakness in my right arm. If I flex the tricep it clearly does not flex fully and is still somewhat soft as opposed to my left arm that flexes fully and easily. I also attempted to do some hammer tricep extensions with some dumbbells I have (5, 10 and 15) only to find that while my left arm can easily do them with even the 15, the right arm struggles with anything more than the 5. Now, I'm not a regular at the gym even though I should be (I do have a membership), so I'm not in the greatest shape in my life. However, I know I should be able to handle hammer extensions with the tricep over 5 pounds so there is definitely muscle weakness present this time around.
I'm not sure exactly why this chose now to flare up but I do have a few ideas. In early November I did get a flu shot and even though they say the shots are generally safe it has definitely been pointed out both here and elsewhere that the immune systems response can sometimes go overboard and cause attack the nerves. The flu shot is specifically a risk for this as it is not a vaccine in the same way the other vaccinations you receive in life are and as such it is prone to causing such issues. There's also the fact that over the course of September to November I removed the siding, soffits and fascia from my home and completely resided the house. In the course of doing this early in the process while removing siding I was standing on the top of a stepladder (I know, I know, you're not supposed to stand on the very top) when I shuffled my weight which caused the leg one of the legs to sink in to a mole tunnel that was apparently there. This caused that leg to buckle and fold and the ladder kicked out and away from underneath me causing me to fall backwards and land flat on my back. I remember specifically landing on the back first which then caused my head to snap back and smack against the ground which caused my vision to flash white briefly. The incident completely winded me for several minutes and I spend about 5 minutes sitting and recovering my breath. However, after I did recover my breath I seemed to be fine and wasn't exhibiting any symptoms of anything being broken or injured. It is possible, however, that the impact did cause damage that simply didn't immediately appear as it is no uncommon for spinal injuries to take months and even years before you start to suffer problems.
Regardless of what the cause is this has seriously been freaking me out so it has been great to read through this thread and see people discussing their cases that sound so similar to my own, though with obviously higher scaling on the weights since many here are no doubt in better physical shape than myself. I think a lot of people forget how important it is to hear and talk to people who are going through what you're going through to keep your thoughts grounded and stop anxiety from running away with your thoughts. At this point I'm probably going to have another MRI done to confirm the spinal issues seen 3 and a half years ago are still present and are flaring up again. The first visit the doctor seemed convinced it was a trapezius issue as the pain hadn't entered the arm yet and I hadn't noticed the weakness at that time. I have since messaged her updating her on the situation and I imagine the next step will be imaging again. Personally I believe it is likely related to the neck issues again since, as I have mentioned, certain head movements can trigger the right shoulder pain and sometimes even down the arm if I hold it long enough.
I really want to thank all of you though for your stories as it really has helped me put this in perspective and settle my thoughts on the matter.
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
So I had my MRI done and the result was not at all unsurprising. Compared to the MRI from 2016 it definitely was showing a progression in the disc issue and stenosis on the C7 which was described as "mild to moderate" in 2016 but is now marked as "moderate to severe" on the right and "mild to moderate" on the left. There was no stenosis on the left previously. The MRI also showed issues developing at C5-C6 and C3-C4, all on the right side which seems indicative the general cause is likely postural with the C7 issue likely worsened by the previously mentioned fall.
The C6-C7 is likely the root cause of all the issues I'm experiencing from the right shoulder and upper back pain, tricep spasms and weakness and pain or tingling at the elbow that can also radiate down in to the middle finger and inner sides of the adjacent fingers. I've also had back spasms for a long time and I've been told that this is also likely caused by the C6-C7 nerve issue since the latissimus dorsi also heavily relies on innervation from the C7 nerve root. Apparently the focus is often on the tricep because it's usually the more obvious and is more easily tested, but your lats can also suffer from a C7 nerve impingement which I was previously not aware of. A weakened lat can also create a cycle as it will cause someones posture to worsen without knowing it and that shifted posture can, in turn, worsen the impingement that's causing the problem in the first place. Anyway, thought I'd share that information since it was new information for me.
Anyways, I now have an appointment tomorrow with a "specialist", although I'm not thrilled with it. They set it up with a clinic that specializes in "conservative non-surgical care" which I'm not sold on because we did PT and an injection last time and now here I am 3 and a half years later with the same thing, only worse. So many times I've read about people who just went in and got a discectomy to resolve the bulging discs and were better in a short span of time but yet it seems even with my stenosis and bulge considered "severe" and with muscle weakening they still won't even talk about that option. I've heard horror stories of people who had similar issues and the clinics would only do PT who got worse and worse and when the doctors finally decided surgery might be a good idea the degradation was so severe they had to have a more substantial surgery done and some of the impact of the spinal issues were permanent. I'm going to make it clear to them when I talk with them that I don't want anything off the table because I'm sick of dealing with it and so far PT has not worked.
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
I wanted to post another follow up. It's been over two years since the onset of my initial symptoms.
I was diagnosed with a syrinx in my neck, and a smaller one in my lower back.
The good:
My body has adapted the best it can to the new circumstances. The soft flabby pectoral and tricep on my right side are better, and flexing them no longer results in immediate cramping. I look and feel more symmetrical and when flexing my right pec it now behaves almost the same as the left. I'm able to do in the neighborhood of 50 pushups and 20 pull-ups, which is almost back to where I was before this all began. I know the problem is still there, but other muscles must be compensating and filling in, because it has improved which was initially diagnosed as impossible.
The bad:
If I push it hard with weights, about 24 hours later I will have an unnatural feeling severe headache which will last a day or two. Bodyweight exercises are fine, but heavy bar weights will set it off.
I think I was born with the syrinxes in my neck and back they've just grown over time. The only other contributing factors may have been several neck whiplash car accidents growing up. (Nothing drastic, just some neck pain for a few days afterwards.) I also have arched my back when bench pressing for many many years when maxing out.
I hope that anyone reading this still suffering does not lose hope. I didn't. I've been doing P90X continuously for the past year and pushed it as hard as I can with bodyweight exercises and calorie counting. It has gotten better for me and I hope it does for you too.
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
Quote:
I am in exact same boat. Mine was when I was doing my taxes on the computer and turned my head (after training 5 days that week) Felt tightness, then extreme pain in my back. Then the pain went to my tricep and forearm. After the steroid pack the pain subsided yet I was so weak I could not even do 1 push up. It was mentally draining. I continue to train 5 days/week yet progress is slow. I am now up to 34 push ups yet my tricep and pec are still not responding the way the should. My MRI and EMG show I have narrowing of the canal in my C7. I have been doing traction every night for 15 min, then I use the tens treatment, then I ice everything. I am type A and do this religiously. I have definitely improved but want these muscles to "fire" again. The muscle loss occured so fast I thought I had some major disorder. Please update me with any of your progress.
- - - Updated - - -
Do you have any current updates on your condition? I am going through exact same thing. It is mentally draining.....
Thank you for this comment.
I had very sudden inability to tense the bicep and corresponding muscle loss, seemingly overnight!! I too felt like some major disorder was happening
My GP is of course not concerned (are they ever) but I am seeing a neurologist in 10 days
I came here needing a little hope and I found it, which can be a godsend at times like this .
Re: Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength
Hi fellow mate, I can easily resonate with your pain as I had encountered a similar situation. I, being an athlete, am very concerned and take care of my body as my most precious wealth. A few months back I had been diagnosed with a weak jawline and the doctor advised me to undergo a chin implantation, else constant strain on my jaw can lead to further complications in future. I was shattered down and was left numb on hearing this, as it would bring in a break to my athletic field. I finally had the chin implant three months back. Needless to say, the whole surgery had made my jawline much stronger than before and I could feel the difference in strength on my chins.
