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we physiotherapists diagnose, treat and recover the patients from ailments
then why don't we were called doctors: is it just because we never prescribe medicines, or we do not perform surgeries. In India layman could recognize as only doctors, he can't differentiate as from them. so PT's who do private practice in India declare themselves as doctors, so that a layman can find his way to him. but the doctors in India oppose this , what's the solution for this ?
The term "doctor" is merely an academic one. It refers to a doctorate, e.g. Phd or doctorate or medicine which in turn is the summation of a large body of work that includes certain requirements. Most programs take at least 5 yrs to be awarded such a title and with many physio diplomas and degrees falling short of that there is no way that one should receive the title.
That said there are physio's in several countries now enrolled in doctorate programs and courses are being lengthened to make this an achievable title. Pity countries like the UK are running fast track 2 yr post grad courses in physio that completely destroy what the rest of the world are trying the achieve!
In India we "bachelor of physiotherapy" undertake the course duration for 4 years and 6 months internship . will that do ?
we are what we are..we dont care at all its just nothing to be doc or not ..at all we are helping ppl ..who care about other ideas.
Hi,
why would you even want to be called " Doctor" ???
That word doesn't neccessarily have anything positive attached to it, whereas "Physiotherapist" often does. It also indicates that we provide holistic therapy, rather than a quick fix (well, I know, that's a bit like wishful thinking ...).
If you are worried about knowledge of the general public, maybe you should invest more into promotion of our profession.
If you are worried about not bearing an academic title: well, a BSc or even MSc is just exactly what it stands for, nothing else. If you aren't happy with it, as above, do a PhD/enroll in a doctorate programme and write your dissertation. Good luck, because that's really a lot of hard work.
And please don't forget, there is still heaps of countries, where you need a prescription from a doctor to visit a Physiotherapist. And not all degrees are the same.
Cheers,
Fyzzio:)
being called as a doctor is just a sort of title that in my opinion is not important at all..
the most important is recognition for what we..
and i think we have that..
no one can deny the help of a physio in many conditions..
and as long as we help ppl,all else don't matter.
Not going to answer the poll because I do not agree with the any of the choices. I do agree with some of the points already mentioned. Basically just because we don't have the title of doctor, does not mean we are less trained etc. We are Physiotherapists with a very important skill set and a very important place in the health care system. It is up to us to educate people as to what we do.......changing our title doesn't cut it!!!
you get what you pay for
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyzzio
so you guys are sorta like osteos, yeah?
[QUOTE=sharileedahl;22800]Not going to answer the poll because I do not agree with the any of the choices. I do agree with some of the points already mentioned. Basically just because we don't have the title of doctor, does not mean we are less trained etc.
yes it does...
I must admit I refrained from voting because the options were rather biased in their delivery.
Why aren't we given the 'doctor' label? Because we aren't doctors -- in the academic or the professional sense. If I wanted to be a doctor, I would have studied medicine.
Putting the issue of a Phd aside, I realise there are a few professions in some countries that label themselves as doctors upon graduation. That said, how often are those professions the brunt of jokes because they "aren't real doctors"? I can surely do without the title if it maintains physiotherapy's medical standing.
I would like to add sth..
I personally don't think that there is a matter of being or not called doctors because the proffesions are different with the only common base line that we treat patients..
we are therapists for specific conditions, unlike doctors which treat illnesses and health disorders of all kind..
And the same way we are not called mechanics just because we happen to "fix" the mechanisms of the human body and they fix machines.
Bottom line we should be proud for what we do and how the call us, we are physical therapists!! :o
very well said Helen:D, I think this is a very logical and reasonable answer, is doctor a god and if not why we are starving to be called doctor .
i mean if i am geet why will i yell to be called helen I WONDER!! :mad:
I would be interested to know from which countries the people that have reacted to this poll, come from.
As far as I know, nobody uses the title doctor in Europe.... we are physiotherapists. We have a Ba or Ma education, no more no less.
The moment we study on, writing a thesis, we can become a doctor of... whatever it is we have studied. In Holland chiropractors and osteopaths do NOT call themselves doctors, in other countries they do.
esther
physio's are physio's .....doctors are doctors...
i think we should be informing people who physio's are rather than waiting to be called doctors because people used to misunderstand the work of a physiotherapist...
they think physio are all about some massage and exercises....
dear Nancy,
This is getting interesting.
I became a physiotherapist in Holland in 1977. Our profession was a pretty even mix of massage therapies, exercise therapies and therapy using electrical agents. I have always loved this mix, because it gives me the opportunity to chose, making lots of different "recipes" for every single personīs specific needs.
In these 32 years, emphasis on what is the most important part of our work has changed frequently. At this moment exercise therapy is pretty hot in Holland, massage is still hot in Germany and electrical agents is very hot in Spain.
But in these countries, doctors are the ones that studied medicine and we are physiotherapists (europe and anglosaxkson world) or physical therapists in the USA & Canada (as far as I am informed).
I am very proud of our profession. In general, doctors in Holland recognize our specific expertise and tell patients to go to us, because we are the "specialist of the moving parts" = Dutch expression.
Esther
mmm.....good to hear that the doctors there recommend physio's...bt its really a different scenario here...
doctors are the ones who will prescribe patient to physiotherapists.....and they will even write there what to do (for exp: give passive ex or hot pack etc)
people here don't know much about physiotherapists....whenever we say we wanted to study physio they will ask what is that??
hope people here will be more aware of physiotherapist in future....:)
The scenerio you sketch is similar to the one in Holland in the 1960-70īs.
Australia was way ahead with free access long ago ( 70īs?)
Holland introduced free access in 2004.
Free access meaning that you are free to go to any physiotherapist without a doctors referral and with payment (by the national health systems or private insurances) guaranteed.
What made it change in Holland?
....in my opinion the following things happened (but not overnight)....
1. the fact that in general the population was becoming more informed ( even before internet, by means of patient groups and television programmes)
2. doctors slowly became informed about what we do...
how?
a. by getting back to them straight away and informing them that you, after assessing, do not agree with their treatment suggestions and are planning something else. Explain why and in my case, they always agreed...... often saying... we do not know much about your profession.......
b. by being prepared to "fight with your knowledge" by writing letters about your treatment, describing it, describing results etc etc
c. informing your patients, with fact sheets, writing for journals for the general public etc
3. by generally not accepting the "assistants rol" the doctor has put you in, but showing you are a true health professional with your own education and qualities.
good luck
esther de ru
There's many types of doctors, they don't all perform surgeries or prescribe medicine!
On one hand a recent JAMA study revealed that medical treatment is the leading cause of mortality in North America.
On the other hand, long term degenerative diseases are influencing poor quality of life,
and on the other hand, we still stick to Toxic therapies to overcome our health problems??? :eek:
Time to overhaul the entire system, and standardize the level of education required for Physios.
[QUOTE=Drew Still;23846]well thats where your misinformed. if by doctor you mean GP then would have to agree that they have a generalised knowledge of a wee bit of everything. Physios specialise in what they do so you could argue more trained.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharileedahl
i'd rather be a specialist at what i do working as an autonomous practitioner (i'm lucky i'm in a country where this can happen) than be desperate to achieve the title of doctor.
maybe thats where we are failing as physio when the general public don't realise the training we go through or even what we do!
Because we are NOT doctors.
Quite happy being a PHYSIOTHERAPIST thank you very much - worked hard to get here and am proud of my title!
Besides, look at the likes of 'Dr' Gillian McKieth (you are what you eat) - turns out she wasn't a doctor at all. By referring to us as physio's or specifically chartered physio's there can be no doubt as to our qualifications!
[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Hallo All,
Intersting discussion,
Well,In Arabic country some regulations there as physiotherapy should study 4 years, then he can called junior physiotherapist,
So far,
After 5 years of experince get senior physiotherapist![/COL:cool::cool:OR]
A doctor is not a job title it describes a qualification.
A student coming out of Medicine School and entering into an internship is an intern! S/he has three degrees, BAO, BCh and MB ie Obs and Gyne, Surgery and Medicine. As such, an intern is nothing (poor choice of words, I do apologise) but spends the year training in both medicine or surgery (mainly) afterwhich they attempt to become part of a scheme (SHO)
The scheme is either in Medicine or Surgery, therefore, they now become a Physician or Surgeon (NOT a doctor). (there is other titles like GP that are separate from physician and anaesthetist)
So if you have studied a PhD, then you are entitled to be called 'Doctor' but only by your peers. Whereas, in Medicine/Surgery, people have afforded Medics/Surgeons so much respect over the years they have been called Doctor.
To further highlight my point, a surgeon is technically known as Mr. (dating back to Surgeons and Barbers Guild in the 1700 - 1800's).
Call yourself what you want as long as you have the qualifications
hi,
i think its not important to be called doctor. we are putting people into there normal life.... we are making people pain free without any of medication...... its my personal experience that many patients refer to me by a doctor , surgeon or physician but when they get treatment with me and after some time they get improve they forget that doctor who referred him for physio..... and they give me very much respect.... they refers more patients to me.... and its enough for me..... i proud to be a physiotherapist and to be call a physiotherapist.... i think what we doing that can not be done by any DOCTOR......
:)Thanks
The issue is thick historical quagmire. Why do physicians call themselves doctors when they aren't? The term doctor in this case implies that you are dealing with a physician. It has been so abused by fringe professions (osteopaths and chiropractors calling themselves doctors, often after undertaking qualifications of minuscule quality and length of education).
The most legitimate use is for a person who has completed a PhD, a clinical doctorate or some other doctoral degree. Personally I think only in this case should you be referred to as "Dr". With the advent of the Clinical Doctorate in physical therapy in the US, and now being taken up countries such as Austalia some of us will be entitled to call ourselves "Dr"
However The term is really more a term of power and status. This is why medical clinicians would be loath to give up the term and why some alternative health professions traditionally adopt the term.
For that very reason I think the term should be restricted to those who have a doctorate. Otherwise it is just a pompous posturing to assign power and status to us. Although the road to better recognition is long and hard I think we would do better to gain that recognition by our competence, and earning respect in society by what we do best: physiotherapy
Its not a question of standards, i think it helps the public understand the differences. If we were all called doctors everyone would get confused!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyzzio
I agree with that...Both offer different services and different professions ;)
Maybe we are moving into an era where medical practitioners are called medical practitioners, physicians or surgeons rather than Drs. As we have graduates with DPTs and more physios with PhDs it would be less confusing.
as Fyzzio said why would you even want to be called " Doctor" ??? . we are physiotherapists we use different techniques for treatment may be , in my country, we need a prescription from doc first but that for patient safety . and as nan cy8702 said we would better inform people who is PT .
Personally I don't like the term and would prefer it not to be used by physios. If/when I get my PhD I doubt I will want to be called "Dr" as I don't like status markers. However I wish medical practitioners should drop it as well - but teat won't be happening in the near future either.
Regardless of what I or any of us would like it will be used by physios who have completed doctorates in physiotherapy. It will be used by them as a marketing ploy to differentiate a superior level of training (whether or not that superiority is warranted) and likewise employers may seek doctorate employees in preference to others, especially for leadership positions.
So what I wonder is how as a profession we should handle this. We have been through this before. When I graduated I got a diploma but Australia, our large cousin country was all graduating B. Phty level degrees.
I just want to reiterate my point.
Dr is not a profession but a degree title.
When a student qualifies from medicine, they have three degrees.
They then study, in the main, medicine or surgery, whereby the become a Medic/Physician or Surgeon (obviously other titles such as GP, Psychiatrist exist)
I studied physio, if I earn a PhD, I'll be Dr..... but still a physio.
I become a physician, I'll have lots of degree, I'll be Dr... but still a physician.
So, its a moot point of what we should call ourselves. Our occupation and academic qualifications are two very different things. Public perception is something else though and I want to go to the best of whatever profession it is. I'd rather go to a physio with a doctorate in the area I have a problem with. As much as I would go to a ortho surgeon with a fracture versus a vascular surgeon...silly point I know.
I agree, Apocalypse
It would be good if it was limited to academic qualification
One point though: the DPT and other equivalent doctorates are not specialist qualifications. They are generally generalist qualifications. In fact the physiotherapy component is actually not alot more in depth training than many baccalaureate 4 year trainings. Students only commit to three years of education at that level. The only difference is that you have usually completed an undergraduate four year degree in some related science. So a DPT is not really a guarantee of higher quality, particularly with some of the more shonky educational institutions getting in on the act in the US (along side reputable faculties). And it certainly isn't and indicator of specialisation./
umer thanks a lot.i accpet ur word,which is very much true&cant deny to it
ur very much true my friend,but is more important is that people should get much aware of medical fields.people should have atleast a knowledge which profession treat which condition.i agree "physio" treat medical and non-medical condition.rest depend on qualification and knowledge
Hi everybody.For me the subject matter is more complex than what some of us are saying.Gcoe has once again delivered the reality on the ground as far as this game is concern.Many physio that have contributed only wrote what their society has made them to believe and not what they want for the profession.
Nations across the globe believe Doctor title is for those individuals and profession that has acquired enormous body of knowledge,and deserve honor and repect.
Healthcare delivery in modern world supposed and it is interdisplinary in nature for consistency and effeciency but professionals that go by 'doctor' title tend to steal in the eye of the public the collective reward and incentives.The public still think and have unwritten impression that doctor of any 'cheat' in healthcare chain are more knowledgeable,more informed about their condition even if the doctor know next to nothing about the condition.
I believe physio has come of age and contries training docrorate in physio are free to go by the title.This is the way the profession is going. There are variation in Peoples attitude and values across the globe.What make sme sense in europe might be unthinkable in africa or other part of the world.So physio face diverse chalenges across nations of the world and individual physio bodies handle those problems the way they deem best.yelufem
We are afraid of doctor. people here don't know much about physiotherapists....whenever we say we wanted to study physio they will ask what is that??
hope people here will be more aware of physiotherapist in future....:)
Your experience about your people's knowledge of physio is not unusual.Even in the very developed society people still need to be educated on what physio is all about.They tend to believe that we are all doctors or nurses.
Be ready to change the status quo.Always insist that doctors refer patient appropriately not verbally.and discourage referrals that dictate to u what to do.Patients must be informed that physio is not extension of Drs prescription but experts/clinician that are required to fix their problems.
Your physio body must not relent in educating the masses about physio and what it can offer.Be ready to pay the prize for the next generation of physios.
By the way,i guess u posted from Pakistan.am i right? Yelufem.
Physiotherapists are not doctors
What rubbish! If you want the same shonky reputation as chiros, then push to be called a doctor.
Physios have a good and recognized reputation with the legitimate medical fraternity (medical doctors). Calling ourselves Dr's would likely alienate ourselves.
Unlike thelose charlatan chiros, we are well respected when we work in hospitals. The only way (in Australia at least) a Dr Chiro can get visiting rights is if they are seeing a friend or family member - seeking clinical privileges would be laughable.
As others have pointed out, you want to be called a Dr? Do a PhD!! It's 3+ years of hard work (on top of the 4 you did as an undergrad). Heck, you don't even have to do it in Physio! Go waste your yime with a PhD in arts to allow youself to become a "doctor". BUT in my opinion, you STILL shouldn't call yourself a Dr. I feel I have the right to say this as I am a Physio and have a PhD in physio. I never use the title. It is misleading when I work with real medical Dr's. I do not tell other staff or patients I have a PhD. In fact, a number of years ago, the Physio Registration Board rightly sent a member advising physios who work in hospitals NOT to use the title to avoid confusion. I feel it it acceptable to use the title if you work in an academic setting, where the title has meaning. Anywhere else (including on your credit card or when booking airline tickets, for a Physio - or anyone else with a PhD for that matter - surely it's a matter of ego to use the title?).
Be happy that you're a Physio - for some reason, a lot of people want to be one and many can't. Patients and medical doctors both acknowledge our legitimacy in the medical profession without us having to claim the title of doctor.