I was just wondering what peoples opinions were of the Sports Rehabilitators was? Are you aware that they exist? How do you think their skills compare to Physios?
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I was just wondering what peoples opinions were of the Sports Rehabilitators was? Are you aware that they exist? How do you think their skills compare to Physios?
hi Karen
i havent seen it before, just read randomely selected from the net, i wouldnt tell differance between sport therapist, physio with sport interest or sport rehabs. i think unis make more narrow courses to lure students. only sport rehabs to work in neuro needed extra 2 years to study, and physios 6m or less to do their job. sorry if offended anyone.
thanks
We actually have had this discussion before on this forum. You cannot compare even on the application of a rehabilitation technique as the technique in itself is not the major component in a rehabilitation plan! It would be like comparing a junior athlete to an Olympic champion. Excuse my rather opinionated answer. But there is nothing to compare.Quote:
Originally Posted by karen.hankey
A sports rehabilitator lacks the depth of clinical anatomy and disease process required to make the very best judgments on all sorts of injury mechanism. This is both at a high level client (e.g. professional athlete and at junior level e.g. a young male with Perthe's diesease). Disease being a major factor and the identification of both red and yellow flags as well as identification of serious pathologies (e.g. tumors) that must always be considered.
Now outpatient physiotherapy practice is but a minute part of the physiotherapy profession which includes, neurology, cardiac rehabilitation, cardiopulmonary medicine, paediatrics, gerontology, mental health, developmental disability, wound care, plaster application, various respiratory suctioning and supportive breathing techniques including working in the intensive care units etc etc.
So comparing the two is no better than comparing an Osteopath to a Physio. You can only compare on the skill level of the components in the Sports Rehabilitators remite that are also used in the Physio Profession. In that regard there are some very good practitioners on the rehabilitators side. In Canada we always had Athletic trainers as part of the staff as they were very proficient at carrying out the rehabilitation plan that was developed by the physio team. This is where the issue lies. You might be very good at teaching a specific exercise and also at encouraging the client but most of these courses lack the reasoning behind what exercises should be given and when. For this you need a team approach.
I am sure of course not all will agree with my comments but this is what a healthy debate is all about :)
A Sports Rehabilitator does not just do exercises with a patient. They have the clinical skills to complete a full subjective and objective examination from which to make a diagnosis. They can then treat with manual therapy, electrotherapy, massage therapy along with following that up with exercises to strengthen the injured area to reduce re-injury risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by physiobob
The anatomical knowledge is as good as a physio's, the whole first year is taken up by anatomy, physiology of injury, types of injuries (including mechanism of injury, signs and symptoms) and basic treatment techniques. All this is built on in the subsequent years.
I actually think that a sports rehabilitators choice of exercises is very specific to the patient. It is about tailor the exercises to the patients activities/lifestyle and being as imaginative as possible. I wouldn't give any exercise that I wasn't able to reason its use - I think that comment is unfair.
I believe that sports rehabilitators get bad press and that can be down to a lack of understanding from the other therapy professions and patients about what we can do. I have been given a great chance to work with a highly respected physio who recognises my talents, and to him it doesn't matter that I am not a physio, just that I am good at my job and get people better. Surely that is all that should matter, not the letters after your name.
As a 3rd year Sports Rehabilitation student i disagree with this comment that a sports rehabilitatior lacks knowlege of anatomy, one of my close friends is a 3rd year Physio student her course spends 3 months learning musculoskeletal injuries where as Sports rehab spend 3 years learning this.
A Sports Rehabiliator not only prescribes exercises for rehabilitation, we diagnose, treat and rehabilitate.
in December 2007 my fellow students and i attended the a orthopedics course in which there was mainly phyisos and junior doctors, the lack of knowlege of the physios in imusculskeletal diagnosis was not to be disrespectful, but shocking.
i think it is unfair to compare the professions as the only overlap they have is the musculskeletal injury management. i believe anyone who saw us at work would agree that we are just as competant as a sports specific physiotherapist.
to Caroline and Karen
If you do exactly what physios do then you probably are physios who specialize in a specific field(that is sports and musculoskeletal). I do not know how you are any different from physios and I think you should be respected for that. Concerning the issue of training, When I was trained, I was trained in the works of Anatomy like a medical Doctor would, does that make me a medical doctor No?But in your own case, you are trained as physios(with a different name) with a better application of a certain skill that isnt new to physios. I think that sounds like a specialist area to me. As time goes on, more professions will spore up taking extracts from a core profession thus forming something new.
So as sports rehabilitators, you guys are specialist physios although your certifications dont say that. Unless there is an added therapy that you do that is unheard off to physios then you are as good as any physio out there probably better because you specialize in something.
This is probably where the average physio may be superior; they can work in any specialty but that isnt a problem for you guys because you have already defined where you belong. I liken your case to an accelerated bsc/masters class in core msk and sports.
Thanks for that. Its nice to know that people do understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Damien
I have been qualified 4 years and my current boss is very big on the Sports Rehab profession. Our problem is that when you apply for jobs within sports injury/physio clinics it feels like we are just dismissed, as soon as a prospective employer reads the words "graduate sports rehabilitator", then ends of chance with them. This is made worse now because the big insurance companies are tightening up on who can treat their patients. It has been know for some Sports Rehabbers to get recognition for an insurance company, but now the big companies have entrance criteria of 5 yrs post grad, HPC registered and some of your work in a hospital. So even if a Sports Rehabber can show they are good at their job, they have no chance. Because this is the core of private clinical case load, they say they can't afford to take you on.
Also what annoys me at present is the media campaign that has recently started about checking your health professional is HPC registered. Now this feels like a kick in the teeth for me, I am doing the same job, to the same objective but just don't have the HPC number. This will make people not book in to see me, which makes no sense. Most patients are shocked to find out that I'm not a physio and ask me what the difference is. My answer is that we can only treat musculoskeletal problems, which in private practise is all you generally see anyway. So this HPC registered thing just seems another way to push Sport Rehabbers into the wilderness some more, and make it that even more jobs are inaccesible.
I just don't see how we can't all be taken on our own merits. Why should a physio with no musculoskeletal experience get a job over someone with 4 years experience? makes no sense. But it all comes down to the physio title and that damn HPC number. It should matter on how you treat, can you get people better, and are people willing to pay for that service?
Having worked with sports rehabilitators, sports therapists and remedial instructors I feel that they all play a vital and valuable role within their remit. I was luck enough to start specialising early when I qualified but when you compare some physios who have spent a couple of years rotating to someone who has specilised from the outset there is little comparison.
The only thing I would say is that those who I have worked with who did not qualify as physios, and thus did not do clinical rotations within the hospital setting (seeing neuro, cardiac, respiratory patients etc..) tend to be able to pick up that what they are assessing does not fit the picture, but not always what the cause is....then again a lot of physios don't always!
I hope that in the future the HPC regonises professionals for what they are and the role that they play.
I feel that comparison is too strong, there are many professions capable of assessing and treating musculoskeletal injury, the main aspect that varies is the treatment modality employed at the time and then subsequent approach to rehabilitation.
Replying to an earlier thread, Sport Rehabilitation students are taught musculoskeletal anatomy for a total of 24 weeks in both upper and lower limb in their first year of study, examined by way of both practical examination and written assessment. In second year as part of the manual therapy module they are then taught spinal anatomy when working towards developing their clinical skills in manual therapy to both treat the spine and peripheral limbs. Similar to the additional module taught outside of the standard physio degree by the SOM and OMS. In addition to this students attend the University of Manchesters anatomy school where they have an in depth look at tissue orientation and positioning whilst talking with and listening to the lecturers based there. Finally in their final year students work on peripheral nerve anatomy based around advanced manual therapy and neurodynamics. This gives students a thorough grounding in all aspects of soft tissue anatomy.
Additionally they cover Musculoskeltal assessment (12 weeks) and musculoskeletal injuries (12 weeks) individually focusing on specific disease processes and tissue healing, perthe's disease is one of the many aspects covered, students are taught to recognise yellow and red flags as part of all assessment and clinical reasoning. Biomechanics is covered in both basic (12 weeks) and advanced (12 weeks) modules learning to apply this to movement mechanics and functional application of technique and movement. Finally functional rehabilitation covers both movement dysfunction with regards to posture and also exercise rehabilitation.
Finally the students cover Pitch side Trauma under tutilage with Dr. Andy Smith who works with the RFU allowing them to cover matches/games pitch side with confidence and competance. Something physiotherapy doesn't cover.
Physiotherapy students on the other hand on average cover 12 weeks of musculoskeletal anatomy and 12 weeks on injuries. I know this as many of my friends are physio's. As a physiotherapist you are taught so much in mahy different disciplines, using the "athlete" description physio students can be likened to a decathlete covering many different disciplines at a high standard whereas a sport rehabilitation student just focuses on one area for instance the sprints. Not saying one is better than the other just that again they are of the same animal just a different bread.
As practitioners we specialise in specific soft tissue treatment and rehabilitation and refer on when we come accross something outside of our remit. We need to stop comparing as there is no better or worse.
Personally I am happy not to have done physiotherapy as a couple of friends have taken their name off the HPC and CSP registers due to the difficulty they have found finding work. I never wanted to cover the other modules of neuro/respiratory etc, I wanted to work in sport and soft tissue injury.
When karen first started this she was referring to musculoskeletal only and it isn't the first time physio's have used the other aspects of their learning base to sure up their claims as being "better". There is no such thing. It's just differences and options. Plus the other aspects of physiotherapy don't really apply to this thread unless its in direct referral to that specific discipline which it doesn't.
HPC registration is a frustaring thing inj all honesty because it's offered to anyone who completes physiotherapy and doesn't necessarily indicate their ability and competancy as a practitioner.
I apreciate this however would be difficult to implement and I guess is the easiest way to award the registration as I can apreciate that with physiotherapy comes heritage and a professional standing. However with the ever changing face of healthcare and sport the established norms are moving away from this with the need for highly specialised practitioners in several disciplines working as a team to better serve the needs of patients.
Many institutions and practitioners are now recognising the fact that GSR's- Graduate Sport Rehabilitators (under insurance from BASRaT) are capable of assessing (both subjectively and objectively) soft tissue injury and employing clinical reasoning to decide the best route to take in both injury management and rehabilitation.
Hopefully one day this will be the case and there will be a level playing field whereall practitioners can develop and grow...this is however the UK and one word comes with that......POLITICS
Hi,
I know this thread has been going for quite a while now, but I just wanted to say that the last guy was right. There is no comparison. A rehabber such as myself specialises in musculoskeletal injuries, specifically sports based and with an emphasis on rehabilitation throughout the whole injury, back to being as good, or better, then before the injury.
From my understanding, a physio covers a much wider base and so is not so specialised but may be able to treat a wider range of conditions.
I went on a course at the weekend for advanced soft tissue techniques and everyone else was a physio, either newly graduated (and struggling to find work) or in 3rd year. I again have to agree that their knowledge of musculoskeletal anatomy and specific injuries was poor. No one seemed to know what a slap-lesion was. However, ask me about respiratory or neural things and I am at a loss. I think this makes the point again about specialisms.
This just shows ignorance and I would ask you to get the facts right before posting. I spent a whole year learning every muscle, its action, origin, insertion and innervation, as well as joint structure (ligament, cartilage etc) as well as doing three month modules on pathology, injury mechanisms and client assessment.Quote:
A sports rehabilitator lacks the depth of clinical anatomy and disease process required to make the very best judgments on all sorts of injury mechanism.
Sorry! Trying not to get worked up! It is just frustrating to not get recognised for our level of skill and ability.
Not a particularly fair comparison, if you took out the still student and just qualified physio's who have spent 3-4 years being taught anatomy, physiology and a very broad base of nearly all medical disciplines there knowledge of specific points relating to musculoskeletal problems will not be as good as someone who has spent years covering this as a specific area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi84
However, take physio's at whatever level who specialise in musculoskeletal and they will have developed themselves in that area, have in depth knowledge for diagnosis and hands on and exercise therapy.
The plus side to physio is that when you have people coming off the street to see you(private practice), they can have many and multiple at times medical issues. They can also arrive with any form of unusuall problems masquerading as a musculoskeletal issue, this is where i feel the more general medical teaching helps - to spot these and to incorporate adaptations to a treatment program for a variety of medical conditions.
That is a fair comment but the same can be said for other professions that once they specialise and have gained experience they themselves become superb practitioners.
Personally I think that physio degree's should be four years with the final year geared towards specialisation towards a particular pathway to aid in employment as once graduated many many students are not employed. Thats another bonus of sports rehabilitation in that gradautes are able to go into other areas whether it be clinical practice, teaching, research, personal training, military remedial instructors whilst also working in "physiotherapy" roles/departments straight from graduation.
What we should be doing is looking at how the two professions can compliment each other. Comparisons are futile, like doing the same with osteopaths and chiropractors, for the general public this may help but it takes away from each profession as each is different.
On the medical knowledge to be honest it doesn't make a difference unless you need to know for pitch side trauma (taught by Dr Andy Smith at Salford) but otherwise as long we know red flags and apreciate that this is outside of musculoskeletal perview then we refer on otherwise we're not soft tissue based practitioners and working outside the remit to which we are trained.
My colleague is a physio and he is amazing with knees truly stupendous but does that make physio great or just him as a practitioner!?!?!?!? Anarchy!! lol
What I'm saying is there's no point comparing, the grounding of this degree is solid with a masters pathway coming soon enough and will soon be recognised alongside other HPC professions.
Keep shouting the name!!!!!!!! BASRaT BASRaT BASRaT BASRaT!!
Toad, you're arguing the same point that I was making! As a rehabber I specialise in soft tisse, mainly sports injuries. All I think we are saying is that rehabbers are just as good as a (non-specialist) physio at musculoskeletal stuff. I believe we have the edge in terms of late stage rehabilitation too. However, the bonus seems to be with a physio, that if there is a more medical problem they may be able to treat, whereas we are taught to recognise these warning signs (red flags) and refer on.
And I agree with you mcsportsrehab, it would be great to all work together. Bring it on BASRaT!!!
p.s. I think there is already a masters underway at St Marys?!
There's an exercise and rehabilitation masters at St Mary's but there will soon be a Masters in Sports Rehabilitation and one in Strength and Conditioning Heidi this is an ongoing thing so keep an eye on the BASRaT website. Students will also be insured to practice doing sports massage in the future under additional membership, we are also applying for GSR's to be accepted to work at the 2012 olympics!!!
Clearly you do not have any idea of the depth of anatomy that physiotherapists study. It is the same in Australia of that in medicine, the only difference being we don't actually learn the surgical cutting and have less in the pharmacology. To give an idea it goes on for 2 year or intense study and examination not just of normal anatomy but diseased anatomy as well. It also includes many hours in the lab working on cadavers, each and every week. I think that the sports therapist does not have such knowledge although please do correct me if they also train to the level of a surgeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by karen.hankey
I have read all the point above and would like really to keep the replies to the original posting which was can you compare. The answer is that there is NO comparison. Sports injury management is a small subsection of the field of physiotherapy. Physiotherapy itself covers a multitude or areas from neurology, paediatrics, gerontology, women's health, orthopaedics, musculoskeletal/outpatients,vascular surgery, cardiopulmonary rehabilitation etc etc. As a result the physio has to learn a large amount and in depth about a lot of things that can affect the human organism. Thus they have a lot of knowledge when assessing a client that is important.
A sports therapist or rehabilitator may well be great at their skill set however they should always consider consulting a physiotherapist for advice as and when it is required.
I will provide a classic example from 2 years ago.
I assessed a client for a "back sprain" following a schoolboy rugby injury. They had been told it was a strength issue and to get to the gym and do squats, cleans etc etc. One of the first things I did as part of the assessment was a full neurological check for brian, reflex, cord problems etc. It was there that I noted something was not quite right.
After an hour of assessing I was still not clear what was going on. I explained this to the boys father and asked for another hr to assess him later in the week. In between I brushed up on everything neuro that I thought is might be. Later that week I finished the assessment and sent him to a neurologist with my findings.
It turned out he had muscular dystrophy. The result of which was a very different treatment plan to a tackle injury from rugby. It was my grounding in many areas as a physio that lead me to this diagnosis, fairly quickly and easily. This was impt. for the boy who until then was being placed at more and more risk of further injury.
I think this illustrates that some courses might be good at teaching exercises and how to perform them (even assessing a ligament strain/sprain), but it is a very different thing to really nut out whether or not they are indicated as the appropriate treatment strategy or not.
I think this discussion is getting a bit ridiculous. It is clear that most of the non-Rehabilitators (ie Physios!) haven't got a clue what they are talking about!
I am a Chartered Physiotherapist and my husband is a Graduate Sports Rehabilitator, so i do feel a little qualified to make a point on this issue.
Firstly, there needs to be a distinction made between a massage or sports therapist (some of whom can adopt these titles after a 12 week course) and a Graduate Sports Rehabilitator who spends 3 years studying musculoskeletal physiotherapy in massive detail, as well as going into much more detail about strength training and conditioning, clinical reasoning and functional rehabilitation.
Any GSR could comfortably walk into an NHS OPD setting and start at a reasonable senoir II/I level, whereas us Physiotherapists can only walk in with a relatively basic knowledge. And this is rightly so, as we spend some of our 3 years studying neuro/respiratory etc etc. There needs to be a sharing of skills, an appreciation of what we each do well and also our limitations in practice.
Physiotherapists should not feel intimidated, but use this reasonably new profession as a new benchmark in our level of graduate skill set. A little competition never hurt anyone!
As for working with elite athletes, they have us on that one. There is no way without further study new graduate Physiotherapists could walk into an EIS facililty and functionally progress sport-specific athletes as well as a GSR.
We have such a great range of knowledge that we should be proud of, and instead of belittling our titles by feeling the need to add to them (for instance: Consultant Specialised Orthopaedic Physiotherapist, what ever was wrong with Chartered Physiotherapist anyway?!) and taking pops at other professions, we should be striving together as a profession to up the game!
Absolutely brilliant!! Finally some clarity from someone!!
I find your astute observation of the situation to not only give clarity to the situation but also apreciation of the differences between the two professions!!
This is a reply to PHYSIOBOB, can I just ask you something?
Why do you take such offence at this conversation? We are discussing the beauty of varying approaches to the muscoloskeletal paradigm
You keep talking about physiotherapy but this isn;t the discussion, we are talking about the role of GSR's (Graduate Sport Rehabilitators) within private clinical practice and elite sports fields managing musculoskeletal conditions.
Of course there can be no comparison as our students do not study cardiopulmonary or neurological etc and are not geared towards working in that area
Physio students do not cover pitch side trauma yet as new graduates they cover sports matches....is this appropriate?
You use the example that you ahd to go brush up on previoius neuro pathology but what a GSR would have done is referred onto the appropriate professional this is the basic premis behind any kind of clinical reasoning in that if your assessment indicates the pathology is somewhere outside of your remit RE musculoskeletal the refer on.
We could all talk about case studies where another prfessional has not met the needs of the patient but that would just be highly pedantic and unecessary
If of course you have read all the threads then you would be aware that undergrad SR's cover neurodynamics based on David Butler and Michael Shacklocks teachings covering myotomes, dermatomes, reflexes, tensio testing, structural differentiation etc, physio degree's in the UK do not cover this at undergrad
Physio students and I know this as I have one volunteering with me at a football team I work with, don't cover a great deal in musculoskeletal anatomy and injury case studies around the issue for instance only ACL and MCL tears for the knee!? the rest is elf directed study.
Very interesting approach to teaching
What we are talking about is the necessary role for individuals such as GSR's to work within both the national, private and sports sectors
The issue at the moment is of great interest in the UK in that there are "MULTIDISCIPLINARY" approaches to issues where people work in parralel but not together and also "INTERDISCIPLINARY" approaches whereby we work together in a single focused effort
This latter approach would allow for GSR's to work ALONGSIDE physiotherapists for the benefit of the patient....as after all this is why we do the work we do
I apreciate your input and if you read rachyroo's input then you may well apreciate that there are differences both comparable and not and we shouldnt be stood on our soap boxes demanding superiority, rather we should look at ways in which we can develop further as individuals and professionals for the benefit of our patients
I'd like if anyone can explain me the differences between sports rehabilitator and sports therapist.
A sports rehabilitator is a degree only qualification. 3 years is spent learning anatomy, physiology, mechanism of injury, musculoskeletal assessment, functional rehabilitation, psychology, clinical reasoning, sports massage, nutrition, manual therapy, eletrotherapy, neurodynamics along with much more. We spend 4 months on placement withing different settings including private clinics, sports clubs, gyms and with an orthopaedic surgeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holaktal
Sports therapy is not as clear cut, or thats the way I percieve it. For example, you can become a sports therapist with a weekend course, but you can also achieve a degree in it. Therefore when you book to see a Sports Therapist you don't tend to know how much training they have had. From what I have heard this is being looked at by the Sports Therapy profession to try and ensure a minimum level of training.
This is my opinion, not fact so please feel free to correct me if you are a sports therapist and disagree.
I'm thinking about doing an Msc. Im from Spain and I've studied physiotherapy and sports science. I'd like to do a Msc where I can learn more about treating a player from the moment he/she gets injuried until he comes back to train with his team or he is ready to compete.
Here we have two different professionals, physiotherapist and "sport readaptator" (I studied that in sports science degree), but I don't know exactly their translation to english.
That's why I'm asking about these differences.
Which would be better, an Msc Sports sience or an Msc sports rehabilitation?
And, moreover, do you know any university better than the rest?
thank you
Actually the original posting was to ask what the comparison was with physiotherapists. My comment was that there is no comparison. I very much value sport's tech's/trainers/therapists/rehabiliotators input in the clinic and they are a welcome member to our sports teams. They should not be compared however to physiotherapists, and that was my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsportsrehab
My idea is not compare these professionals. Everyone has their own competences and they should work toghether to get the best results in patients rehabilitation.
But we have to consider that sometimes competences are not clear and sometimes more than one professional can treat the patient. In these moments is when a good multidisciplinary team takes advantatge because they discuss and colaborate and, in the end, they decide who is the one that treats the patient (maybe without taking into account the theoretical roles of each professional).
Ok coming from a sports therapy background im currently in my third year by the way id have to agree with some of what Karen.Hankey has got to say about the course but?Quote:
Originally Posted by karen.hankey
One thing that you can't do is become a "Sports Therapist" in a 12 week course, agreed yes you can take courses these being Sports massage, Advanced techniques and the what not and give yourself a self title of it and once again possibly lowering the standards of care. These courses I feel should be aimed at people already with the background knowledge as some physio's sports rehabilitators who didn't study them at their University this said its not anyone can do it and unfortunatly its the same with Rehabilitators some PT's go out after learning how to give out training programs at which point they also call them selves a "sports rehabilitator"?
Being on a sports therapy course I can tell you that we have done the same as the Sports rehabilitator worked with sports teams and in clinics but this was over 3 years as we needed to complete work experience through this whole time.
What also is of interest is that on that chosen sports rehabilitator degree most of the modules that you learnt are actually the same as a sports therapist? Sports massage, Advanced treatment techniques (STR, NMT that sort of stuff), Assessment of injuries, Nutrition, Anatomy & Physiology, electrotherapy, Rehab they are just to name a few.
I just feel that its abit strange when there is different names for courses but they are basically the same thing. Id would have to agree that physio's do know more than sports rehabilitators and other professions in cetain areas but the rest a all treading a fine line of being the same thing?
In my mind (sorry physio's if it offends you) at the minute most physio's are used in primary care once the person is walking they are released at whihc point its whoever out of the rest of the professions get there first to help the person return to their standard of sport or everyday activity.
Cheers anyway for this post brilliant stuff being written.
I come at this from a Sports Therapist background. I freely admit that there can be a large variation in the quality of training, something that needs to be addressed. I also admit that my theoretical knowledge, especially of neurology issues is not what it should be, which I'm working to rectify as I want to be the best therapist I can be.
I'm currently working on my own with a small rugby team however I spent the last two seasons working with elite rugby squads. As part of their multidisciplinary teams I've seen that every body, and every profession, has their strong and weak points. It's by recognising these and working appropriately together that we can provide the best possible treatment to our clients.
As an example the physio/osteopath would look at relevant joint/back injuries, another was the best to talk to for post operative rehab. Another was the best for the sort of 'every day' muscular issues that arise from training twice a day as he had the best skills in massage, NMT etc and for late stage rehab as a link between the physios and conditioning coaches.
I had a physio come to me and give me a great technical diagnosis, then say "what do I do?". I've seen doctors trying to take a pulse through four layers of tape when the neck and the other wrist were free, an osteopath manipulate prop's neck before a game (when he asked for some warming up) who then ran on the pitch with a sore neck and lasted 10 mins. Different letters after your name does not necessarily make you better.
Good thread, good to see the different opinions and experiences etc.
I studied a diploma course in Sports Therapy for two years, where I gained ITEC diplomas in Holistic Massage, Anatomy and Physiology, Gym Instruction, Sports Massage, Sports Therapy Equipment, Personal Training, Aromatherapy, Aerobics and Stress Management. I was using this course as a way into Physio as I was always interested in sports injuries. Since I left this course I have been working as a PTA and this has really put me off studying Physio. While I do find neuro, resp etc interesting I would never want to work in it for long periods of time on a rotation basis in a hospital. My interest is Musculoskeltal injuries. Now, I have offers for Sports Rehab, Physio and Sports Science in UK and Irish Unis and I'm stuck for what to go for...Physio would obviously give me more job opportunities, which will be handy given that I'm going to be walking out of a good job to go back to study again and I have a good basis to go back to education with my knowledge from my Sports Therapy course and my hands on experience as a PTA. I don't think I'd enjoy studying physio although I would enjoy the wider range of A&P modules but the fact that GSR can't get HPC accredation just seems a bit silly.
I think that it is great that there are people with special interests that compliment what we do as physios. I am not sure the exact range of skills/training for sports rehabiliators but I am certainly going to find out more.
Just some thoughts that might make my viewpoint a little clearer.
When I did my degree we had a 4 year athletic therapist course at the same uni with lots of musk assessment, on-field experience etc and they were very good at it. In my 4th year sports specialisation course we had to take exams re diagnosis etc and the physios on the course scored in the 80's and 90's while the athletic therapists were scoring in the 50's and 60's. Similar training but perhaps a different emphasis on particular areas of the courses. We dissected bodies while the athletic therapists worked out of textbooks. We treated a range of both ill and injured patients while the athletic therapists worked with relatively young, healthy athletes. Certainly there was something different in the approaches because of the populations we were working with. Sometimes the specialisations may give excellent skills in a focused area but not necessarily the total broad picture. Sometimes the broader picture may lead you not to see something that a more specialised person might view. Not to say there is anything wrong with either perspective.
I worked as a primary care practitioner having to examine and decide if there was soomething seriously wrong with patients (and there were not always red flags evident but DDx skills can help when red flags aren't that obvious) or not and then treat or refer onwards to doctors as need be.
It might be just a desire to be able to make use of the legal title and billing system but both the instructor of the athletic therapists (with an Msc in Athletic Therapy) and a number of the graduates of that school decided after being in practice to go back and train through the full physio course.
I think that the experience was good for both the physio students (seeing what someone else brought to the course) and the athletic therapy students (who had a chance to see what the physio course really entailed) who were training further.
Lets hope that we in the UK have the ability to appreciate each others talents.
Cheers
I have actually only found very limited info on GSR'a when I googled the term. There are the university references but little on the history and development of this group. From the BAsRat site and St. Mary's uni I found:
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‘allows the student to work specifically in the area of sports injury and in particular late stage rehabilitation… ‘
Can anyone point me towards somewhere that tells us a bit more about the history and development of this professional group??
thanks
Hi Physio4u,
The BASRaT site is probably the best source of information regarding the Sport Rehab profession; the links on the left hand side of the home page (which i guess you have already found) give a rundown of the Role Delineation, history, accredited places to train, etc etc.
Also, for everyone, if you look on the recent news page there is some exciting news for GSR’s regarding Society of Orthopaedic Medicine courses.
Thanks,
Rose :o
Yes I read through the BASRat site and there does not seem to be any information on who or why this course was developed eg since there are two other sports therapy organisations here in the UK that are also looking for HPC registration and are trying to become degree based (although not to the same level as GSR's). I suggest that HPC reg is a danger as much as good thing as many professions have discovered. DC's unacceptable in NA are licensed here because of British law and there are many people who have been grandfathered in because the legislation does no allow you to put someone else out of work when you achieve a registered status. Discovered on an acupuncture course that I was on that the 'physio' teaching course who had 'extensive 'training had never been to a physio school but had been grandfathered in because of experience. So much for the benefits of registration. IF PT's have had this done to us after having legislated status for so many years what do you think will happen if all three sports treatment groups get melded toether?
Not a criticism but who exactly started this ie was this course started by a physio frustrated by the present system or someone who was working in this area and wanted to be recognised? If the course is fairly new who did the standardisation and how was that evaluated? By the people who were developing/running the course itself?
I know that in North America there is some overlap between athletic therapists (all degree based, on pitch oriented etc) and sports physios. We do and have worked well together but the emphasis has never been for the AT to replace the role of the orthopaedic and sports physio but rather supplement/work in tandem in a sports team environment or work independently with athletes/schools/sports teams (some might have a different perspective from NA and I am happy to hear about it). The thing is that AT's have never been seen to be used in the NHS except in general with or under a PT because of the differences in the diagnostic training etc.
Happy to hear that the SOM will now accept GSR's on the course.. this was the stuff we were learning at the early part of our degrees when they were still BSc's at least where I studied. Now MSc is the entry level for physio and by 2020 it will be PhD in the US (who knows if Canada will go that way as well). Certainly there are great benefits to be gained with the training that can help anyones treatment skills.
Best wishes.
physio4u
Hi,
Thanks for looking at the website, so many people choose to make statements before doing that so it is a refreshing change.
There is nothing on the BASRaT site, or on any documentation, which would suggest that there is an intention of "replacing" sports therapists, physiotherapists, or any other profession. Much rather a drive to have a different (not lesser or superior) and valuable skill set recognised as such, and to work within a multidisciplinary team (where there will always be, and always has been an overlap of skill sets) for the benefit of patients. I think it may be this misunderstanding which leads to some of the negative assumptions which have been made about Sport Rehab in the past.
Many of your questions I cannot answer fully as I am not part of the organisation.. only a member. However, my understanding is that BASRaT was set up by individuals working in sport (some physios, some other HCPs or eqivalent) who saw a need for another kind of profession, which was solely degree level based and regulated in a similar manner to other HCPs.
As far as standards and accreditation go I am not sure so I cannot comment further, but I would urge you to contact BASRaT admin if you would like to find out more.
In reference to grandfathering, in my opinion this is no bad thing, there will always be individuals who choose to take a non conventional route, and as long as equivalency (to whatever standard is set) can be established and maintained I don't see the harm, in fact I think the diversity in approach can only add to a profession.
I also trained in Cyriax/SOM approaches as part of my undergraduate degree, so I agree that is nice to see this opportunity for more formal training.
Kind regards,
Rose :o
i know this was ages ago but as a sport therapist ill answer this for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by karen.hankey
yes any tom, d.., or harry can do a weekend course in say massage (the easiest part of my degree) and call theirselves a sport therapist, but like GSR's we also call ourselfs graduate sport therapists (GST's) to distinguish ourselves from the rouge people.