Wasting triceps & pectoral, loss of strength

[Canuck Physio]

Hi folks,

to the OP: Please stop bench pressing at the moment if you can. If you can't, try completing unilateral dumbbell pressing with the good arm only for now.

Additionally, there is one thing that can not be emphasized Enough: Posture, posture, posture. Without examining in person your form with exercises it is difficult to tell if there is anything that could have precipitated this injury. My experience and studies suggest that the neck position in various exercises has the capacity to influence cervical spine health, especially during bench press exercise.

The ideal would be to have a full assessment of the musculature. As one response has already stated, find out exactly which muscles and ultimately which nerve roots are affected. I would want to know specifically is it at certain levels, and or specific roots?

The one other thing that may be missed out is the Serratus Anterior strength test. If the lateral pectoral Nerve is affected, this significant scapular stabilizing muscle may have had significant atrophy. I would want to get a full scapular examination as well. Bench movements imo are completely out of the question considering altered bio mechanics and neuro-signalling to the surrounding musculature.

best of luck

[wakaday]

Had this condition since early December, I’ve seen an improvement over the last month. Chest pressing strength from LH to RH has improved from 55% to 27% difference, and triceps hammer style extension from 50% to 7% difference. I’m continuing to train the LH side hard and RH light in these muscle groups, and using Russian stimulator twice a week in a short & intense method. I’m hoping the muscle mass will now start to return. I’m still waiting to see a Neurologist, but that can take some time on the UK NHS. I’ll try the strength tests again next month. I’m pleased with this improvement. I’ll keep you informed.fficeffice" />>>

[ontheway]

Did you ever get diagnosed with anything? I have been waiting for a while to see my neurosurgeon as well. I am going today. I just started the russian stim. Done it twice in two weeks. I will probably bump up the schedule a bit. Very frustrating indeed. I am glad to see there are better results being had from you. Hopefully i will begin seeing them as well.

[wakaday]

no proffessional diagnosis , still waiting to see neurologist. I didn't have any obvious reason for the condition , simply woke up with it?

[hollispaul]

I too woke up one night to a limb that was asleep more than usual as it took longer that normal to regain circulation, dont know if it was due to the amount of time asleep or what I just knew something was different, I sleep on my right side mostly with my arm extended and pillow between my head and shoulder, the next night i had severe twitching or spasms in my right upper back for almost an hour an then it stopped, I didnt recognize anything being wrong until a week or so later I tried to catch myself on the floor pushup style and my right arm didnt support and my face crashed to the floor, I'm 5 10 210 and usually bench press 275 8-10 times on my last bench set...at that time I started investigating and noticed severe pectoral sagging or atrophy and atrophy of my long head on the tricep this was after the hurricane in september and I didnt see a dr. until december, since then I have had x-rays of c spine and MRIs of the shoulder and c-spine two EMG's. the first one the nuero said I definately had a pinched nerve somewhere, prob from the bulge in 4-5 protrusion 6-7 and bulge in 7-t1 or 8 that was seen in the MRI.... My neurosurgeon seems to believe its a brachial plexus injury of some sort, a strech or tear, he says that my disc injuries are minimal (3mm) since there is no pain and that there is no impingement on the nerves from the discs...he didnt like the results from the first EMG and sent me to another nuero for a more in depth test, she said the same thing that there was some sort of nerve damage but that they had started to heal and said it would just take time, I have been loading up on b vitamins as recommended....... I cannot get a definative answer form anyone and that is aggravating, he(my neurosurgeon) also suggested in returning to the weightroom ASAP to slowly rehab the muscles, Since I cannot barbell press from the imbalance of strength I have started back with flyes(lightweight 25-30-35 lbs) and machine press and also isolated pressdowns and extentions for my tricep...I notice that when I flex the muscles that they cramp up easily and after they uncramp they twitch/spaz for a short while(30 seconds) ......working out is my hobby and this has been quite a depressing time for me and finding answers have not been easy, from the searching I've done on the internet this seems to be more common than I thought, but all my dr.s seem to be at a loss...I dont understand

[hollispaul]

Just wanted to say that my right lat has also been atropfied as well it just isnt quite as noticable as the tricep and pec but when i flex it it will cramp also...this is soo frustrating cuz I dont recall the injury

[wakaday]

Holispaul I know just how you feel, it's quite depressing, i once was a competitive bodybuilder, I've spent the last 18 months on a slow steady diet and my old physique was returning , then this injury! my guess is it's nerve damage from sleeping in an awkard position and it will go away as next month or next year? I don't think there a going to be a course of treatment. I'm still going to see the specialist. If it helps this is how I training Triceps & Chest:

Chest

Peck dec , 3 x warm up , 2 x set failure , almost stack or until LH starts to fail 1st

smith m/c bench - 2-3 x set building up to about 100Kg (used to do 160-180Kg), max weight before RH takes over

upright seated press m/c - press LH only 2-3 set to failure

Triceps

Cable push down - normal weights , warm up 2-3 sets to failure
Seated triceps hammer m/c - LH side only 2-3 sets to failure
Seated tricep barbel extension behind head 2-3 sets, bit lighter than used to.

Russian Stimulator - 2 x week after chest recovered, 10mins , 100Hz, 10sec on/off, as much amplitude as I can take , almost max intensity.

Not really sure how to use Russian thing, my other idea was use it every day , low intensity , low frequencey , say 10Hz, for several hours. I haven't tried that theory. Read some reseach about muscle astrophy reduced in rats when they used the low intensity-high duration route , rather than the high intensity/short duration route I'm currently doing.

I train all over body parts & cardio like normal.

Hope that helps

[ontheway]

well saw the neurosurgeon today and he looked at the mris and emg and can find nothing. he wants me to see a neurologist now.
The weird thing going on here is that we all sound extremely similar in size and lifting capabilities.
I am curious if it is coming from the discs and the laying down mri's are not catching it.
I feel like i am getting some tingling going down my opposite side now as well. I think it is from how i am sleeping. I need to figure this out before the other side goes too!

[ontheway]

Alright everyone grab a seat this is going to be a long, but informative one.

Saw a neurologist yesterday morning. Went in and got in a gown for examination. He did not look at any of my atrophy for a while. Did all of his reflex tests, motor skill tests, strength tests, and then proceeded to ask me some questions. I gave him the run down of my whole experience.
About 5 months ago woke up with terrible pain in my neck and trapezius to where i could not hold my head straight. After going to chiropractor for 2-3 weeks the pain went away, but numbness and tingling was present in the fingertips. While battling to get the numbness away notice strenght seemed to decrease overnight in the pec, tricep, lat, and little bit in the shoulder. Got to the point where i could barely do 5 push ups from benching 315. Told him about mri's for herniated discs and brachial plexus injuries, blood-work, neurosurgeon visit, emg and nothing could tell me what was wrong. He finally checked my atrophy and asked me a couple times if i had been sick before this happened.
I just had a daughter 4 months before this came on and remember distinctly not being sick because i would try staying away from her so that was a no. he said ok, told me to get dressed and he would be right back to talk. He comes back in and throws a name of PARSONAGE-TURNER SYNDROME or IDIOPATHIC BRACHIAL NEURITIS. This is my diagnosis by names. I made sure i got them so you guys can make sure you ask about them.
Basically what happens is the immune system ramps up to fight a bacteria or virus from being sick or a cut or something and ends up attacking the brachial plexus nerves as well. This is most common in men in good health, above 20. Basically it starts with pain (like my neck) as the pain subsides numbness and tingling may become present then the weakening of muscles affected by the nerves starts and atrophy sets in rapidly.
You guys can pull more information up, but this described me perfectly. Basically they do not know why it happens or what really causes it. Good news is that it normally happens and you do recover. It does take time because as we all know nerves heal slowly.
I was still stumped how it affected me, but whatever at least i had some kind of answer and direction, and better that i should be recovering. When i asked for him to write the names down so i could bring the info back for you guys he got the book out and read me the passage.
As he was reading i had to stop him at one point when he was discussing the possible reasons. He stated the illness aspect which i ruled out but he then said something that floored me. Vaccinations and immunizations can be a trigger for this. Remember i said i just had a daughter 4 months prior. Well as cold and flu season were coming, my wife and i thought it would be a good idea to get flu shots to avoid passing something to out daughter. This was right before this happened. I had never had a flu shot in my life until this and was on my affected side. I told him this and he said he should have asked me about that, but there is a decent chance that it may have triggered all of this. He said he is not guaranteeing that is what caused it but a good chance. As far as i am concerned that was it. He said there is a chance he is wrong about the diagnosis, but he is pretty certain. He told me to come back in a couple months to follow up. So he said keep working out to work on the muscle and measure the sizes, 1 rep max, and just keep track of everything. It will take time. I am hitting the gym, doing russian stim and striving for improvement.
I am really floored by the fact that i get a flu shot trying to do some good and get kicked with possible a 18 month problem. It really scares me for my daughter getting all of her vaccinations. If something like this or god for bid anything worse happened to her i would lose my mind.

Anyway this may not be what is going on with you guys, but something to check on, especially if someone is pushing surgery on you. Good luck guys.

[zmansbr]

Wow, I just read your post after realizing that my left tricep is severely weakened. Pretty scary. I was thinking pinched nerve. But I got a flu shot three weeks ago - one week before I first noticed tricep weakness!

Time to see the neuro.