2 year degree courses

[megosborn]

Hi there, I am a physio who has qualified through the two year course - MSc. Rehab Science run at Glasgow Caledonia University.

My question is: what is the objective of this poll and what are the measures by which you are going to assess the relative merits of the courses that you are talking about?

There has been much talk about this in the UK and at times the nature of the discussion has not reflected well on the profession as a whole. The discussion seems to polarise around who's better than who.
In any degree course there are requirements that must met before you are accepted and there is no easy way on to the course which I undertook.

Surely the real concern of the profession as a whole is the competency of all graduates whether they do a conventional undergrad course or a post grad 2 year course? Asking such a simple question will inevitably lead to a "simple" outcome that has no scientific validity and potentially this may influence the opinions of many physiotherapists whith whom these people have to work with on a daily basis.

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[gcoe]

Not really wanting to be devil's advocate here as I share your concerns to some extent. However I think the graduate entry approach, whether a Masters degree or clinical doctorate, is more complex than just the number of years. So I think it depends:

* If it is necessary for students undertake a biomedical bachelors degree or exercise science degree or something of that ilk - so not just any undergraduate training but something that lays foundation for the physio degree then this can be a good thing. Where universities are doing this it means that the students enter at an advanced level and the course can be tailored around clinical science and practice

* Students generally are entering the course and subsequently their profession with more emotional maturity and with advanced learning skills and this is a good thing for physiotherap. My experience of teaching undergraduate students taking on their first degree vs students who have already done another bachelors degree is that the latter outshine their less mature colleagues, are more motivated, have better communication and empathy with their patients and with other team members, and generally adapt to the social norms of being a clinician much more readily.

* Students who do a four year undergraduate bachelors degree are currently being swindled. In most cases they should at least be getting an honours degree, especially if they had to undertake research on their course. Most bachelors degrees in other fields are only three years. So they should be getting recognised for what they do

* Students are expected to learn at an advanced and accelerated rate on these courses. Many of them have reduced holiday breaks and longer days. so on the whole they are more intensive and pressured.

And by the way I do have huge reservations about the implementation of graduate entry level degrees. It may be dumbing down the professsion - who is going to want to go back and undertake a proper research degree or advanced course work after already completing 6-7 years? And what about the financial expectations of graduates who leave university after 6-7 years? There is going to be some very disappointed physios when they find out what is usually being offered.

So I am in two minds about it and I really think it depends on how it is implemented.

[bobo]

Here we go again, this topic has been done to death but i'll express my views on it (based on my experiences).

Before I start, i did an undergrad in sports science (4 years) and then the masters in physio (2 years).

I can completely understand people saying 2 years isn't long enough as theres so much to learn, and this I think would be true if it was two normal uni years. An undergrad has 4 years generally running late Sept or early October-May. Thats 3 or 4 months off in between each year. A postgrad has 1 month off each year if theyre lucky as when the undergrads are on holiday they're on clinical placements. So the actual time an undergrad is at uni in those four years is actually only 3 years really. Suddenly we've lost half the deficit. I genuinely believe that you can learn and retain just as much in 2 intensive years (where you're immersed in all things physio) than you can with 3 years split with months off spreading it over 4 years. Add into the mix the general observation (as pointed out below) that masters students are generally more motivated than undergrads because they probably pay to be there - its what they want to do. Im not sure about you but for a large part of the start of my undergrad I was quite immature and enjoyed the student lifestyle a bit more than I do now, so extra reading was rare.

When i've done placements i've done well (and so has the majority). To me thats all I really cared about - how qualified physios would see me when comparing me with other students and where they expect me to be at. Both degrees are a means to an end and as rightly pointed out below, its not the degree that makes you a good physio, its what you do after. To write off the 2 year course without actually knowing how hard we work for 2 full years is completely narrow minded, and if (from my experience) the supervisors who watch us work are happy then you'll forgive me for thinking theres a bit of jealousy at the fact we didnt spend 4 years doing what can be done in 2 if you actually put your mind to it and commit. What i mean by that is that you can learn the basics at uni, build on it on placement (which by the way is the exact same amount of hours for MSc and BSc) to a point where you can go out and work as a competent professional. Uni doesn't teach you to be a good physio, it teaches you the basics and these don't have to take four years to learn. I dont want to spend any more time at uni than I have to as i'd rather get out and learn clinically.

[sfhdweb]

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