Irish Registration

[Kasius]

Hello Everyone,

I hope someone here will help me with my questions,

1. Can I practice as a physio in Ireland without registration in ISCP???
2. If "no" why???
3. Is it against law or just not eligible for irish society???

I am physiotherapist with 5 years experience, I have finished 4,5 years study in one of the EU country. I have Msc Tittle. I can't bielive that registration in ISCP is easier for people who finished 3,5 bechelor studies and outside EU.

I have to make 4,5 months of "period of adaptation", ISCP send some hospitals addresses, I've send request to almost all hospitals which providing physiotherapy, and each one refused the POA. In some letters they write me tha they are putting me on queue, when now I have called to couple of them and asked about my name, and is there that kind of person in queue to POA, they told me "no" there isnt such of person on our list.

Can someone tell me how it is??? I was calling to ISCP to help me with finding any hospital for POA, they told - "do it yourself, we are not helping with that issues" - and here is another question, maybe ISCP called to hospitals and ask them to not providing POAs?

If someone can help with that issue I will really appreciate that, working in Ireland means for me really lot, because my wife and child are already there.


Regards
Kasius

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[Kasius]

I there anyone who knows the answer???
Cuz it seems to be funny again

[wheatstone]

I'm watching your letter and responses closely...my experience with ISCP was similar...and I haven't pursued it again yet.

[Kasius]

Thank God, there is someone in similar situation, I have written a letter to ISCP with request to provide me a new hospital list with current names people who are on charge in each hospital, waiting a second week for reply, that sucks.

I think I am gonna use some kind of solicitor to investigate that issue for me, cuz when I am asking ISCP to simple answer about "can I practice as a private Physio in Ire?" - I am getting one instant reply, "please register to be eligebly"

I know what does it mean "Eligebly" - it is not an answer for my question,

It seems they are avoiding answer on that question, propably there is a hole in Irish law which gives foreign physios possibility to practice, but no one wants to tell it in eye to eye.

[laotse]

Hi Kasius !

I've heard it's shitty situation here with registration.. I dicovered there is a different way to register, by aptitude test: theoretical test and practical exam. Now I'm learning for ther theoretical test and I'm trying to find someone who can help me to understand what I have to practice before having practical exam. In fact, I still dont know what is the catch...maybe if I'll study hard and somehow pass the practical exam I'll be "eligible" ( I started to hate this word...I believe You too Kasius ).

Wish You good luck, and if You know somethin about how to register, I'm kindly asking You for help ....

Kuba

[Kasius]

Yes, I know something about registration, You can practice in Ireland without registration i private sector, but not for the health board.

And one more thing Kuba gooooooddddd llloluuuuuuccccckkkk with exam, noone passed this exam yet. kidding maybe smb passed but, imagin a quetions about some stooopid stuff, it will quiet normal for ISCP. For example where is heart? hehehehehe

be very very carefull on practice exam, those people aren't there for you to pass, they are for you to fail and improve that they are right about restriction in registration, I am still waiting for my POA, but trully f***k it I found good job not as a physio but as medical rep. and I got much more time and mo than from physio

GL

[alexandra]

Hi, I noticed that your question is a bit old, but i've just found this forum. So what I say: you can practise in ie without a membership, but prepare that sooner or later they ask you about ISCP, because reputation of the clinic is very important for every owner- but the smaller village with the clinic is- the better chances to work you have. It's up to the owner if he/she employs you or not. And besides waiting to any answer from ISCP last weeks and months so - you can always say that you're waiting "IRISH TOMORROW" - what they used to say
The Society is just protecting the vacancies for their people. Many irish physios don't care about the society, cause they're educated in this country - but if you want to open your own practise - it's better to have a few letters before your name- it's a good advertisement for the clients.
I don't know from where do you have the information, that it's easier for people with Bsc degree. I don't agree. The guy i knew- from USA, with seven years of experience and courses - had loads of problems- and ot last ages to become a MISCP. They are just people- they have their rules but they always will be subjective. But... now what I think is -that the more experienced the person is, the more dangerous is, as well, for the labour market. so you can find out the rest.
I have a MSc, without any experience - and I had to spend 16 week on the placement, which after long time I managed to find. And what important is-what heard form my supervisior, who had a meeting in Dublin - Ithe ISCP people asked physiotherapy managers to provide more placements for physio applicants, cause i think last year or two years alltogether- from among 50 applications, only 5 people managed to become a mambers.
I hope you know that it is unpaid- the hospital might pay you, but it doesn't have to.
And besides your irritation is obvious, but it's a foreign country, or rather you, as well as me, are foreigneers. you can only accept this and still look for any placement if it's important for you. It's difficult but not impossible. I'm an example - after 2 years sending different documents, looking for placement asking... i'm a MISCP.
And one more thing - when i received a hospital list - that was in the second half of 2006, and the book was form 2001- so it speaks for it self- in one case - the hospital when i went to ask, didn't exist any more They don't care, your left with the problem, they don't even care about refreshing the information.
Coming to an end - a repeat it's not impossible, it's just frustrating I was afraid to write the exam, cause in contrast to e.g. indian people, english wasn't my second language during studies. I didn't want to risk.CHEERS

[makkan00]

Well I am MISCP and I got it on bachelors course in 2007.

I know also a guy from egypt whose case was rejected and they asked him to do some clinical work.
Instead he prefered to do appeal and in appeal process they accpeted him and he is MISCP but despite he cannot find a job there.

Another thing I would like to tell you is the course contents of your studies. Usually inidans have updated course content and they go through this procedures more easily.

Well first of all check why they rejected your case?
Educational or practical deficiency, and then act accordingly.

[apocalypse]

Dear Kasius,

Firstly, due to EU Directives, all information that you require to have your qualifications recognised are available to you on the ISCP website. The ISCP is strict in applying the letter of the law in that respect. The can be found at the following website:
The Irish Society of Chartered Physiotherapists - Qualification Recognition

Can I state clearly, what service the ISCP provides. The ISCP simply 'recognises' your qualification. That is to say, that the ISCP process and review all applicants and if they are comparable to an Irish graduate, then the ISCP recognises your qualification and will accept you if you wish to become a member of the society i.e. eligible to become a member. Thats it. Nothing further. The ISCP is not a registration board like the New Zealand Registration Board or each Australian State Regsitration Board. It is simply a Professional Body.

The main requirements to be deemed comparable to an Irish graduate and that theory taught in your course is similar to ours. That you have 1000 clinical hours in the following 3 areas Respiratory, Nuerological Rehab and Nueromusculoskeletal. Also, you must demonstrate clinical reasoning skills and show that you are an autonomous practicioner, which all chartered physiotherapists are.
If you do not have these basic requirements, and I promise you they are BASIC, then you are simply not qualified enough to become a chartered physiotherapists.

If the ISCP deem that you are not eligible, then you have the following options:

Aptitude Test
Period of Adaptation

Aptitude Test: They are not designed to make you fail. They are the same test designed by those who design the Irish physiotherapy courses and if you pass you are on a par with an Irish graduate.

Period of Adaptation: This is designed to give the applicant a chance of completing hours that they lack in a certain area eg Respiratory. It is not within the remit of the ISCP to place applicants in hospitals. Simply, this is because the ISCP have no sway with the same. They do not run the hospitals or the management.
If a manager refuses then that is a decision for the manager. You also still have to pass a test at the end and not all applicants do. Remember this period of adaptation is to help facilitate the lack of clinical hours not to teach applicants everything within a certain area. Furthermore, all hospitals big enough to accommodate students already have students from the physio schools who have earned the right to train there and secondly, the Senior physio's receive no monies for training students and you then expect them to train you and the 100's of other applicants on a POA - have you though of who will treat the patient yet.
The list of hospitals sent to you is a list of all hospitals in the country, there are no others. It is up to you to ring them. All information is provided.

Appeal: You may appeal to the Appeals Committee. This committee is separate with different members than the OASC Committee. Therefore, if they deem you ineligible, then you are ineligible.

May I add that by law the ISCP only has an obligation to EU citizens, however, it is their policy to treat all applicants the same EU and Non-EU, not all physio boards in Europe do that.


As it clearly states, to work in the Irish Health Care system, all applicants must be 'eligible for membership with the ISCP'. That is to say, that the ISCP has been deemed the designated authority acting with the approval of the Minister for Health and Children for the recognition of physiotherapy qualifications in the Republic of Ireland.
Furthermore, you may work in any respect in the private sector as you may wish however, you cannot use the title "Chartered Physiotherapist" or use the suffix MISCP. The benefit of course to be able to use the title is that you are recognised by the public as being able to provide a high quality service. Also, all ISCP members are entitled to an insurance policy that covers them up to and including E6,500,000 for each event.
There is nothing stopping you working as a physiotherapist in the private sector, just not a 'chartered physiotherapist'. Any problems or difficulties.

There is such a thing as Temporary Provision of Services. However, I believe you must be an EU Citizen. If you can prove you provide a physio service in Eurpoe then you can set up a temporary service in Ireland. However, there are not many Insurance companies that will insure you for E6,500,000 if you are not an ISCP member.

I'd like to point out that the ISCP does not prevent anyone from getting a job. If you have ISCP Membership that does not mean you will get a job in the public health system immediately. 47% of Irish graduates do not have a job. What makes you think you'll get one. In the private system, you must also register for income tax, set up a business etc etc etc.

With regard to working for private practicioners, I believe you are in essence working for yourself. They simply provide the room, you pay a rent. Therefore, if you injure someone and you are not a chartered phsyiotherapist, then you are not covered for insurance. Secondly, all clinicians will attempt to keep their name in good standing. They must only chose chartered physiotherapists if they wish to use the ISCP logo and the title. So all practicioners will enquire and seek a certificate of your ISCP membership.


May I add that usually for a Polish applicant, where you fall down is that you do not have autonomous practice in the area of respiratory care. Your cardiologists and Resp Physicians dictate treatment. We decide treatment in Ireland with regard to respiratory. Furthermore, your standard of neurology is not as high as ours and the techniques you may use are sometimes considered dangerous by our standards.

These issues are unlikely to be resolved. I recommend a lot of study and to apply for the aptitude test. You can only chose chose POA or Aptitude test. Choose carefully. You may have an MSc but that does not mean it is at the same standard as us or indeed what you have been taught is the same as us.

The ISCP does not ring hospitals and tell them not to give you a poa.

[joanna9physio]

Dear Physios,
I need your help - I have a decision letter form ISCP. I am trying to find an adaptation placement for 13 months - no success.
Can anyone advise where can I go? Who can I approach to find an adaptation placement?
Any clinic, hospital, private hospital?
I went everywhere - no success.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

[aneesh]

I am facing the same situation.. I didnt get a hospital for adaptation.. Please provide informations of hospitals accomodating foreign physios for adapation

[joanna9physio]

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