abdominal crunches & back ache

[JeffK]

I do oblique & straight crunches most mornings lying on my back with both my hips & knees flexed at 90deg & my calves/feet resting on my sofa. (see attachment if this isn't clear)

I do them in this position to make sure I use the abs instead of the psoas & rectus femoris (hip flexors).

This does work the abs quite well, but I often find that the upper lumbar part of my back begins to ache before my abs. It doesn’t feel like the sort of ache caused by working a muscle hard, it feels more like there’s something not right & that I might be causing myself problems. I’ve tried statically contracting my abs (as in core stability exercises) before starting the crunches & it seems to help, but not all the time.

Any comments or advice, anyone?

TIA, Jeff

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[eudony]

Hi Jeff,

I have the same problem. Thats why i just registered at this site.

I thought my problem was due to an old injury to my lower lumbar - an old compression fracture to two lower lumbar. But i recently spoke to some physical trainers and they told me that its due to bad posture. Which for me, is very true. I slouch waaaay too much. Apparently if the back muscles get trained up through exercise and correct posture, the backache associated to doing crunches (and other exercises) should go away with time.

Im not sure if its true, hoping others can either correct me or confirm this. Anyone?...

[alpana]

Hi, The muscles of the back work eccentrically during forward bending (similar to crunches) of the body. You should understand that eccentric work of the muscles is very demanding, and if your muscles are weak, you are bound to expereice pain. It is very much suggested that if you feel pain in back while doing the crunches, then you should stop the crunches and concentrate on strengthening the back muscles. Check ou which muscles of your back are weak. Very high chances of having latissimus dorsi muscle weakness along with the bacvk extensors. Once these muscle are strong, then you can start the crunches again.

[HealthJunkie]

I do not recommend abs crunches. The reason, they do not work. Ask
anyone with a six pack if they do crunches. There are more effective exercises.

[JeffK]

such as...............? Ta, Jeff

[iliastolos]

Hi all!
Some comments on JeffK's exercise... It's true that this position in supine with the knees and hips flexed and rested on a chair or on the floor puts iliopsoas and all of the hip flexors almost out of the game and gives the abs the ability to work harder. But there is a typical error in performing this. Abdominal muscles are a group of muscles, not just one. One of them is transversus abdominis, a muscle with a transverse direction (from left to right), opposite to the rectus (the so-called 6-pack muscle which lies from top to bottom). One main role of the transversus is to 'stabilize' the vertebrae to which it is attached with each others, providing a 'stable' lumbar column. To give you an example, imagine a library stool with little wheels. It can be moved easily around the shelves by just pushing it. When you want to use it to reach a book at a height, you stand up on it and it becomes stable (you actually increase the friction between the stool and the floor and a larger force is then needed to be moved. It can be moved but a much larger force is needed than when you are not on it). That's in a way transversus's role, to 'compress' the lumbar vertebrae with each other so as to eliminate excessive movement (mainly sharing loads) between them. By contracting of this muscle, sharing forces acting in the lumbar spine due to the abdominals muscle group contraction as a whole don't put the spine in such a risk for tissue failure and consequently pain, compared to not properly contracting this muscle.
Therefore, you must do this exercise by pre-activating transversus abdominis. This is done by performing a so-called posterior tilt of the pelvis BEFORE performing the exercise. This is done in this way: in the same supine position, put your hand (left or right, doesn't matter) behind your back. Try to push your hand towards the floor WITH YOUR back (i.e. not the hand alone, the hand must be relaxed), that is by contracting transversus. You will notice that your pelvis tilts backwards (the lordotic back almost becomes flat). That's when you have pre-activated the transversus and 'stabilized' the lumbar spine. Without continuing the exercise, repeat this several times so as to 'understand' the movement. When you are sure of the proper pelvic posterior tilt, put your hand back to its position, perform the posterior tilt, hold it and perform the exercise. During the exercise, do NOT relax this posterior tilt. This is the only static contraction during this exercise. By doing this, the lumbar spine is protected from excessive shearing forces and of course injury.
Hope this helped somehow. I wish I had a video of this but I don’t. Take care (of your backs)!
ilias

[JeffK]

Thanks iliastolos, that was useful. As I said in my original post, I was statically contracting my abs (as in core stability exercises) before starting the crunches, but it wasn't helping very much. Obviously I was doing it wrong, 'cause doing it like you've described seems to be working.

[pudding_bowl]

I was at a lecture by Stuart McGill when he visited NZ earlier last year. He is very good with his back pain and he said he knows of no elite athlete that does crunches. And said that it's a very sure fire way to get back pain. He had numerous reasons, having a backround with mckenzie I'd say that the repetitive flexion under strain is going to give you discogenic pain pretty quickly.

Rather than crunches you could look into some pilates exercises to work your abdominals as these when done correctly are very back friendly. Look into taking a class run by a physio if possible. When I was a student we used to take classes for the university rowers and they found it was a very intense workout.

good luck.

[game150]

i have patient a problem the same you.
i advived about correct posture and core stabilize for my patient.
espectially, core stabilize i use plank, side plank and superman
sometime i teached exercise with gymnastic ball.
effect this exercise is good for patient.
and this time i adviced patient to swimming and running in water.