Altered Breathing Pattern/Hyperventilation Syndrome

[alophysio]

Hmmm,

Bikelet, read at the end of this post please...

Neuromuscular, i am sorry for not responding to this and other correspondence but i have been away lecturing.

My impression, and this is obviously and opinion, is that you have developed theories and models based on your clinical experience.

As you say, you are a clinician (and so am i BTW ).

For myself, whenever i try to explain what i think is happening clinically, i try to understand what the 'experts' say happens and what other explanations are out there. I also try to ensure i don't fall into the trap of scoffing at other theories but rather, i try to understand them (like i have been with your APAS theory).

From your language, it would seem you have very definite ideas of what is going on and i often want to challenge those ideas - not because it doesn't work but because it may not be theoretically correct - am i making sense?

In this particular instance, i have attached a PDF from Netter's Anatomy and this link from Wikipedia which is taken from Gray's Anatomy... Serratus posterior inferior muscle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

1. To my way of thinking, internal oblique is in a much better position to flare the ribs. It is larger than Serr Post Inf

2. Lats and the LDF intimately blend into it, making the mm a likely synergist. Also, to generate torque, you would think that it would have a stronger attachment than a thin aponeurosis to the SP and supraspinous ligamanet.

3. I have personally felt dissections of this area - the muscle is TINY compared to the obliques and lats.

Therefore, your strong, confident comments do not seem to me to be well researched... which led me to ask how you were so certain that it was serr post inf.

Looking at the anatomy pictures, there are so many muscles in the same area, you could have treated lats, IO, EO, TrAb, even erector spinae.

To call lats a synergyst may be a misnomer - perhaps dysfunction or overactive but lats are a forced expiratory muscle - which is why people hold on tight when puffing - for the forced inspiration (scalenes etc) and forced expiration (abdo mm and lats etc)

Can you reference the trial at winnipeg hospital please? Just so i can check the facts of the trial.

Also, your assessment methods are subjective (unfortunately) - i too am more concerned by the results than the theory but if we are to propose why something works, i would be a little more careful...it would have been very easy for someone to just dismiss your theories as being unfounded.

However, people do it to me without thinking about what i am trying to say which is why i try to ask you lots of questions to glean what is going on (compared to what you think is going on).

I hope i am making sense...

Your thoughts on the matter are more than welcome of course!

Bikelet,

belly breathing is usually a sign that the person has locked their ribs down and so you seen the belly moving in and out because the rib cage is not moving - the pressure has to go somewhere.

Normal breathing is seen as the chest and the abdo moving equally

cheers