New research: No such thing as "stuck" SI joint

[neuromuscular]

Dear Ginger:

Sorry, but the Archive of Internal Medicine was NOT British. It was of over 1200 people. The success rates were terrible.

Many people fear being in error. However, as the saying goes, the only thing to fear is fear itself.

You state that you are having success. On what basis? Prior to using this method, I thought that I was getting great success. However, when I started mapping innominate bone position throughout the range of hip ABD, I began to question my viewpoint. When I started to use the hip ABD or APAS test, I did survey after survey as well as the normal ROM tests and functional testing. I found that success rates increased. I did not fear that I was not the guru that I thought I was. The patient replys increased in satisfaction. I did comparison surveys, satisfaction surveys, etc.

To say something does not make it so.

Try the test! Unless it is a trait of those in AUstralia to avoid the unknown..? Why the big problem in trying a test???????

Best regards,

Neuropmuscular

[neuromuscular]

Dear all:

I might add here that the original idea of the mapping of innominate bone position in the APAS test or innominate bone position test during hip ABD was to see if there were other causes than the standard infallible standing SIJ test or "STORK" test that is everywhere - and I might add that has a strong list of "believers".

By mapping the innominate bone position during hip ABD a different set of parameters is shown.

I cannot get over the strong reaction that has occurred to this. Are we afraid of the unknown??? Where is the scientific approach of try and see what your results are??? Very few have had the fortitude to try the test BEFORE challenging it. You might be surprised at your results and the new way of thinking that it engenders. Try the test. Please do not be closedminded.

Best regards,

Neuromuscular.

[neuromuscular]

Dear Alophysio:

I have read your email on D Lee et al.

I will address one issue.

First, the overall impression is that nothing is established except bias of I like the stork test, so I use the stork test.

I the articles The evolution of myths...... the statement is made "it is impossible to know exactly which muscles were responsible for the increase in stiffness and compression." page 5. and on page 9 "Therefore, it is still not possible to be totally evidenced based in clinical practice..."
I do not find percentages of the supposed "closures" of closure problems, just hype.

And under the titleThe future it was even more incriminating!!!!

With expressions like " this working group recognized the need for more research... before any controlled trials of clinical outcomes can be done." Sound conclusive to you??? " We need to develope more diagnostic tests..." How conclusive is that?

I am saying that I know the APAS or the innominate bone position test with hip ABD or the PSIS with hip ABD both the percentages of occurances of the abnormal movements and the muscles defined by the occurances. There are no percentages for the "form closure" to "force closure" to "neurological" to "emotional" model. Where are the percentages of occurance? Is this just another smoke and mirrors?

Give me the same percentages I have given you of 90% asymmetrical pelvic angles: 60%; 20%; 20% and maybe I will have something to go on more than hype: I want facts.

Best regards,

Neuromuscular.

[neuromuscular]

Dear Alophysio:

I am finding it hard to get the raw data that backs the "stork" test. As I noted, D. Lee mentions that support is somewhat lacking.

Is there any generated data that gives the percentages of types of disorders seen.

For example:

Test type: Standing load shift or transfer test data "stork test".

Form closure:

type "a" x%
type "b" y%
type "c" z%
etc
etc
etc

Force closure:

muscle or muscle grouping "a" x%
muscle or muscle groupiong "b" y%
etc
etc
etc

Neurological

Type "a" x%
type "b" y%
type "c" z%
etc
etc
etc

Emotional:

type "a" x%
type "b" y%
etc
etc
etc


I find no hard raw data only speculation and quoting froim one or another "authority".

Is this based on solid research data or hypothetical wishes?

I have given you the average percentages with variation factors from group to group. I find nothing such in the supposed testing and form closure/force closure/neurological/emotional field. Maybe I have just missed it.

It leaves a lot to speculation on the part of each therapist. The data I have given is reliable and repeatable patient to patient, group to group and practitioner to practitioner. The test and theory which you like I find less secure in real data terms. I find that the load transfer test leaves a lot of room for error and interpretation unless you take the tunnel vision put forth. I can see the effects of hip ABD and both quantify and qualify it. So can the ordinary person that I show it to who has not been conditioned to accept a certain criteria.

Please show me the data, as I would like to see it.

Have you done a quantification and qualification process on the test???

Best regards,

Neuromuscular

[neuromuscular]

To all:

I am having trouble finding any corroberating evidence for the types of "form" closure in the form closure/force closure/neurological/emotional model.

Does any one know of a catagorization of the types of supposed "form" closure or is this just theory?

I cannot think of how form closure other that in deformed or tramatic injury problems or in the very aged. To me; we all have differring ear shapes and yet the neurological control hears equally well regardless of the shape of the outer ear. Does not the brain tune itself to what ever "form" there is in the individual SIJ and each form works well for the individual? Does "form" figure in prominently or very minimally in this theory? WHy is "form closure" listed first if it is of very inconsequntial proportions?

What evidence is there for a supposed "emotional" part? DO not people become emotionally distraught from not knowing what is wrong with them? Is it cause or effect????????

Please provide any details if you can find them.

Thank you.

Neuromuscular