toe walking in children with autism

[Bobby Nabeyama]

Dear Dinesh,

The point is that this "sensory processing dysfunction" has been hypothesized for so many decades. I have met many SI trained therapists saying the very same. I have read mrs Ayres book BUT there is no scientific evidence to back this theory up as far as I know.

If there is, I would love to know. Please share with us.

Esther

Good job, Esther.

Just to reiterate, there is no evidence that suggests toe-walking is due to "sensory processing dysfunction." Nothing. Thus, clinicians that suggest children with toe-walking having sensory processing dysfunction are not practicing evidence-based and likely in error. Maintaining this logic, sensory intergration (SI) "techniques" likely would be incorrect and a waste of time for treatment of toe-walking.

[estherderu]

Hi Bobby,

Have you got any comments or thoughts about my pondering...
" The thought has crossed my mind that the reason why children (not only those with autisme) toewalk could possibly be because of a need to "stimulate" their own sensory systems. ?

Esther

[illuminatidinesh]

Hi Bobby,

Have you got any comments or thoughts about my pondering...
" The thought has crossed my mind that the reason why children (not only those with autisme) toewalk could possibly be because of a need to "stimulate" their own sensory systems. ?

Esther

First Am surprised to see ur comment on Sensory Integration(U are such a n experienced person). Now U could be right here.... Yes these children are in need to stimulate their own sensory system. In this particular case I suspect he needs proprioceptive needs( if at all he really has SI issues).
REGARDS
Additional Comment I forgot:

Good job, Esther.

Just to reiterate, there is no evidence that suggests toe-walking is due to "sensory processing dysfunction." Nothing. Thus, clinicians that suggest children with toe-walking having sensory processing dysfunction are not practicing evidence-based and likely in error. Maintaining this logic, sensory intergration (SI) "techniques" likely would be incorrect and a waste of time for treatment of toe-walking.

You are very quick to dismiss the thought without producing any proof of ur own claim. What we assume here is Sensory processing dysfunction could be a reason, there could be other causes too. There is no logic in ur speculation here, please read carefully again" toe walking in Autistic Kids" your reply could suit if the kid has only toe walking(the reason could be physical,neurological).
Additional Comment I forgot:
Dear Ester,
I saw ur suggestions to Shruthi... I myself could have suggested the 1 and 4 point.... Are you aware of the fact that these points has some valid sensory input to this kid which he seems to be lacking.....
Regards

[estherderu]

dear dinesh,

I have found the information on the free access journal called journal of foot and ankle research the place to find out more about the foot and particularly the footsole.
Journal of Foot and Ankle Research

Yes it is alarming when one realizes that what one is saying ( and really believes true) might not be correct. We simple do not have any scientific evidence to back up the claims that mrs Ayres, the Bobath's and Vojta made.
Of course, we have seen that the therapy works (sometimes) - we think...... but the fact that we do not know WHY its works should humble us into trying to find out.

In this age of brain research the new developmental theories give us enough to think about. I think that more and more research is being done and new methods will be the result.


kind regards

Esther

[Bobby Nabeyama]

You are very quick to dismiss the thought without producing any proof of ur own claim. What we assume here is Sensory processing dysfunction could be a reason, there could be other causes too. There is no logic in ur speculation here, please read carefully again" toe walking in Autistic Kids" your reply could suit if the kid has only toe walking(the reason could be physical,neurological).

I will be nice about the following:

Please be aware of your own behaviors as the oweness is on you to provide "proof" of your claims since you suggested children with autism and toe-walking have sensory processing disorders. I made no claims, but did say that there was no evidence to support such a statement that children with autism and toe-walking have sensory processing disorders. See bellow.

Just to reiterate, there is no evidence that suggests toe-walking is due to "sensory processing dysfunction."

This is fact and cannot be disputed based on the scientific literature. Unless you have literature and sources that I don't. And I doubt that. Why would I provide any further if there is nothing else? Please don't reference 'logic' if you yourself have not discriminated the logic of my arguments and have not of your own. Please don't say I provided 'speculations' when I have not speculated at all. My arguments could be for either children with autism or children without autism and toe-walk. Thus, yours points are not germane.

To reiterate a specific point- you have the responsibity to show evidence to support the following statements:

Dear Shruthi and Ester,
I am not surprised to see these kids are toe walkers. Sensory processing dysfunction is the reason for that. Sensory Integration explains the reason for this, Proprioceptive needs for the children is one reason, however other reasons can be determined. First there is a need for a detail sensory assesment for this kid.
Regards.

Please provide evidence-based support for these statments including toe-walkers having sensory processing dysfunction, how sensory intergration explains toe-walking, propioceptive needs for children toe-walking.

I will be waiting- as I watch the views of this thread continue to rise from 374.

[wullie]

Hi,

thanks to everyone for their threads, it's nice to get some feedback.
Most of the children I work with are non-verbal and don't follow instructions well or not at all.

I worked with a child on a spinning whell,he really enjoys being spun around.A couple of sessions and minimal verbal prompts. He still goes up onto his tip toes when spun around but manages to control and come back onto his feet.Furthermore has his gate improved and he's walking a lot less on his tip toes.

But I'm more than happy for any treatment suggestions that involve minimal instructions or any other suggestions.

Thanks everyone,
Ilka

[Bobby Nabeyama]

Hi Bobby,

Have you got any comments or thoughts about my pondering...
" The thought has crossed my mind that the reason why children (not only those with autisme) toewalk could possibly be because of a need to "stimulate" their own sensory systems. ?

Esther

Hope all is well, Esther.

I have heard all too frequently the theories and hypotheses for needing or wanting proprioceptive or vestibular input. There is no evidence to suggest toe walking is due to children's need to stimulate their own sensory systems. Therapists do way too much theorizing without much validity to them.

Kind of scary if our objectives are to help children. Very scary, actually.

[wullie]

Hi,

thanks for all the good answers....as I like all your points in respect to toe walking in autistic children.Due to not much reserch being done in this matter I like to hear all of your comments and ideas. Kepp going :-)
Every autistic child I worked with in regards to their toe-walking they also all had SPC and are seen by an OT. In co-operation we managed to reduce the time some of the children spent on their tip toes. The one's where physical change has already occured are a lot harder to treat.
We won't be able to stop most of our children from toe-walking; but we managed to reduce the amount they toe walk and the long turn effects is has on them,e.g. changes to the muscle/bone structure,main changes to the gait which brings them of balance and increases their risk to fall.

Thanks to everyone :-)