Welcome to the Online Physio Forum.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 46 of 46
  1. #1
    wullie
    Guest

    Exclamation toe walking in children with autism

    Hello everyone,

    I am currently working with children who have autism and a lot of these children are toe walker.I am trying to do a bit more in depth reserch on this, but unfortunately I haven't found much information on the web which is a bit more specific on this matter.

    I anyone has more specific information or is also working in this field I would be very grateful for any help.

    Thanks

    Similar Threads:

  2. #26
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Country
    Flag of Canada
    Current Location
    Winnipeg
    Member Type
    Other
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    9
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Cerebral Palsy In Infancy
    My mother worked as a teacher for her entire career and did some great work with autistic children near the end of her career. I found this thread very informative. Thanks to all involved!

    -Chris
    http://www.mavenlive.com


  3. #27
    estherderu
    Guest

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    dear Mavin,

    no thanks.
    I hope you are not using this to promote your site?
    Constructive reactions are always welcome.

    Esther


  4. #28
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Country
    Flag of Canada
    Current Location
    Winnipeg
    Member Type
    Other
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    9
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Esther - I found the thread a very good read. Toe walking and autism isn't something I had made a connection between in past. But when I thought about the students my mother dealt with it seemed to be prevalent. You learn something everyday.


  5. #29
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    Flag of Canada
    Current Location
    Griffith, NSW, Australia
    Member Type
    Other
    Age
    44
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    27
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    35

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    I have read through the most of posts here on this page regarding toe walking being a product of sensory integration issues. This is an apparent source of controversy as there is no concrete evidence to support this. I think that we can all agree that increased output to the plantar flexor muscles of the foot and ankle would be responsible for producing the altered gait we see in "toe walkers" correct? I think we could all then agree that this may be a product of increased drive through alpha MN themselves to the plantar flexor muscles or promoted by a lack of decending cord mediated inhibition to these muscles secondary to a failure of more primitive vestibular reflexes not being damped or properly integrated from altered higher level brain centers. Such signs are again seen with "release signs" or, more specifically, in this case a "babinski response" which we all know so well. As an UMN lesion includes dysfunction in the cortex and not the cord and autism has been documented to have altered deep white matter patters (remember these are the heavily myelinated fibers) please see the following:http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/full/27/43/11725 it would make sense that through the process of diaschisis descending modulation of the vestibular nuclei output would be impaired as well = increased tone to plantar flexors - similar to release signs seen in the cortically compromised ie. stroke cases. As for how to rehabilitate these, I have had some success with vestibular based rehabilitation using a swiss ball and stimulating reflexogenic eye movements, particularly those associated with output of the posterior semi circular canal system (down and to the opposite side). Building plasticity or encouraging integration with through these sensory modalities would appear to help integrate the sensory integration issue which is likely promoting these. As for whether there is a sensory integration issue at play here I feel it is imperative that we all realize the brain is a sensory driven organ. Without afferent input there is no efferent response. Thoughts are just internalized motoric behavior. Hope this helps.

    SPPAWA

    Last edited by alophysio; 16-10-2010 at 10:03 AM. Reason: Fix metalink...

  6. #30
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Country
    Flag of India
    Current Location
    India
    Member Type
    Other
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    16
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    32

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    As for whether there is a sensory integration issue at play here I feel it is imperative that we all realize the brain is a sensory driven organ. Without afferent input there is no efferent response.
    Exactly my view too...... There is saying about the Nervous system" We know a lot today, understand very little".
    I like to present some research evidence on this, will post as soon as possible.


  7. #31
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Country
    Flag of Germany
    Current Location
    Turkey
    Member Type
    General Public
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    7
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Quote Originally Posted by illuminatidinesh View Post
    I like to present some research evidence on this, will post as soon as possible.
    I would be also interested in any research results in this field. Please keep us updated.
    Additional Comment I forgot:
    Quote Originally Posted by illuminatidinesh View Post
    I like to present some research evidence on this, will post as soon as possible.
    I would be also interested in any research results in this field. Please keep us updated.


  8. #32
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Country
    Flag of South Korea
    Current Location
    Philippines
    Member Type
    Other
    Age
    42
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    2
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Hi! I am involve in music and I found out that music could, in some way, help autistic child in improving their behavior. It could teach them how to communicate and to have better eye contact. As they respond well in music, it could also be used as an interface to help them do tasks that is not related to music like walking.


  9. #33
    estherderu
    Guest

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Dear Wullie,

    Thanks for that... BUT who diagnosed these children as having a SPD, a therapists or a neurologist?

    I hope the neurologist.... if not, what tests and assessements does the OT use to diagnose this condition?

    I am seriously interested. Do really want to know more.

    kind regards

    Esther


  10. #34
    estherderu
    Guest

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Dear everyone,

    Have found a number of answers to the questions regarding SPD in the following article by mrs Nancy Pollock from the canchild website.
    CanChild Centre for Childhood Disability Research

    Esther


  11. #35
    wullie
    Guest

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Hi Esther,

    our OT is using the Sensory Profile (www.SensoryProfile.com) by Winnie Dunn, but all the children I'm working with are also seen by other professionals. Every child has a "sensory diet"(that's the outcome of the sensory profile) which they follow every day in school.
    We have seen improvements in the children who are receiving Physio and at the same time following their sensory diet. It's just very complex as the children I'm working with are on the lower end of the spectrum and most of them are non-verbal and don't follow instructions or copy/mimic any movement.
    Hope this is helpful

    Kind regards,
    wullie


  12. #36
    estherderu
    Guest

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Dear wullie,

    Have you read Nancy Pollock's article? In it she refers to a dr heibroner and I have found the website. On it his perception of sensory processing disorders.
    Why "Sensory Integration Disorder" Is a Dubious Diagnosis
    Does make you think and wonder.

    And... in the process, getting back to trying to our subject namely what to do about the toewalking... maybe we should rethink our treatment goals.

    Esther


  13. #37
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Country
    Flag of Australia
    Current Location
    Sydney
    Member Type
    Occupational Therapist
    Age
    38
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    2
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Hi Everyone,

    I thought I'd add my bit. I'm an occupational therapist working with children with autism, some of whom toe walk. For starters, SPD is not yet a recognised diagnosis so while we may describe a child as having SPD, we do not diagnose them with it. A child's sensory processing and sensory integration is assessed by using the Sensory Integration Praxis Test (SIPT) or more commonly the Clinical Observations (a non standardised ax originally developed by A Jean Ayres). This information is collated with the results of the sensory profile mentioned previously and general observations of the child's function in different settings (school, clinic, home etc.).

    I have been working on the hypothesis that toe walking is a sensory seeking behaviour, with the child seeking deep pressure, proprioceptive or vestibular stimulation (or all three). All of the children I see have significant sensory processing dysfunction and this hypothesis is in line with their overall sensory profile. In terms of treatment, I use a sensory diet along with the Wilbarger Brushing Protocol and I have also been using Kinesio Tex Tape to inhibit gastroc/soleus and facilitate tib. anterior. The sensory diet and Wilbarger Protocol improve a child's sensory integration and decrease sensory seeking behaviours. The Kinesio tape increases proprioception to the muscles as well as utilising the specific muscle application. Within treatment sessions we frequently use vestibular, proprioceptive and deep pressure stimulation.

    I realise that there is no significant scientific research to support this, as I said this is just a hypothesis. I have however, seen a decrease in toe walking and improvement in gait stability in the children I have been treating.

    Julia


  14. #38
    estherderu
    Guest

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Dear Julia,
    thank you so much for your imput.
    I have been researching the (kinesio) elastic therapeutic tape for a while now. Have come to believe that it doesn't always matter in which direction the tape is applied.
    Have you tried different directions or just kept to the (kinesio) protocol?
    I have been wondering if taping either only the tibialis or the triceps would make the same difference.

    Have also thought about using other/nieuw tape applications. have done so and so far the results have been meager.
    Could you tell me a little more about the number of patients you have used tape on and your success rate?
    If you are interested in the "new" applicaties, please leave me you email address and I will send them to you.

    kind regards

    Esther


  15. #39
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Country
    Flag of Australia
    Current Location
    Sydney
    Member Type
    Occupational Therapist
    Age
    38
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    2
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Hi Esther,

    I'm relatively new to kinesio taping, I did the training in October so I tend to stick to the protocol when doing inhibition/facilitation taping. The taping I have done is with a very small number of children, about half a dozen although all showed a decrease in toe walking behaviour in some form. With some of the boys it was only immediately after the tape was applied and as the elasticity wore off, so did the effect of the tape.
    One particular success was a boy (8yrs) with very severe toe walking who had been recommended for achilles tendon release surgery in 6 months due to limited ankle ROM and pain. For him I alternated between lower leg and upper leg applications (inhibit gastroc/soleous or hamstring, facilitate tib ant or quads). Through a combination of taping, sensory diet and the brushing programme we restored his ankle ROM to 90 degrees and he is no longer having tendon release surgery. He had a two week break from taping over the christmas period and mum noticed that his gait stability deteriorated over this time.
    As I said, I've only done this with a handful of kids, it's more out of personal interest than anything else. If you could send me the details of the other taping methods that would be great, thanks. My email is [email protected]

    Julia


  16. #40
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Country
    Flag of United States
    Current Location
    Queens, New York
    Member Type
    Other
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    23
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    36

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Quote Originally Posted by estherderu View Post
    Hi Bobby,

    Have you got any comments or thoughts about my pondering...
    " The thought has crossed my mind that the reason why children (not only those with autisme) toewalk could possibly be because of a need to "stimulate" their own sensory systems. ?

    Esther
    Hope all is well, Esther.

    I have heard all too frequently the theories and hypotheses for needing or wanting proprioceptive or vestibular input. There is no evidence to suggest toe walking is due to children's need to stimulate their own sensory systems. Therapists do way too much theorizing without much validity to them.

    Kind of scary if our objectives are to help children. Very scary, actually.


  17. #41
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Country
    Flag of United States
    Current Location
    Queens, New York
    Member Type
    Other
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    23
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    36

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Quote Originally Posted by julhay View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I thought I'd add my bit. I'm an occupational therapist working with children with autism, some of whom toe walk. For starters, SPD is not yet a recognised diagnosis so while we may describe a child as having SPD, we do not diagnose them with it.
    Unfortunately, therapists including OTs diaganose SPD as if it is recognized.

    A child's sensory processing and sensory integration is assessed by using the Sensory Integration Praxis Test (SIPT) or more commonly the Clinical Observations (a non standardised ax originally developed by A Jean Ayres). This information is collated with the results of the sensory profile mentioned previously and general observations of the child's function in different settings (school, clinic, home etc.).
    Unfortunately, the SIPT is not used much nor is it validated for what is currently looked upon as SPD, there are no clinical observations to validate SPD, and the Sensory Profile merely provides subjective measures to hypothesize SPD even if the child may not have SPD.

    I have been working on the hypothesis that toe walking is a sensory seeking behaviour, with the child seeking deep pressure, proprioceptive or vestibular stimulation (or all three). All of the children I see have significant sensory processing dysfunction and this hypothesis is in line with their overall sensory profile.
    This hypothesis does not have the empirical backing by way of literature, scientific, and theoretical support to suggest any validity.

    In terms of treatment, I use a sensory diet along with the Wilbarger Brushing Protocol and I have also been using Kinesio Tex Tape to inhibit gastroc/soleus and facilitate tib. anterior. The sensory diet and Wilbarger Protocol improve a child's sensory integration and decrease sensory seeking behaviours. The Kinesio tape increases proprioception to the muscles as well as utilising the specific muscle application. Within treatment sessions we frequently use vestibular, proprioceptive and deep pressure stimulation.
    That protocol is antiquated without any validity and should not even be mentioned in therapy anymore.

    I realise that there is no significant scientific research to support this, as I said this is just a hypothesis. I have however, seen a decrease in toe walking and improvement in gait stability in the children I have been treating.

    Julia
    You should be commended to at least know and admit that there is no significant research to back such mentioned hypotheses.

    However, to suggest that practicing protocols based on admitted unfounded hypotheses are purely rationalizations. Therapists need to move away from rationalizations. We can rationalize anything to make something sound good, make sense, appear acceptable and intuitive.


  18. #42
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Country
    Flag of United States
    Current Location
    Queens, New York
    Member Type
    Other
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    23
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    36

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    I'll have to review this:

    Pediatric Physical Therapy: Winter 2010 - Volume 22 - Issue 4 - p 417–426 doi: 10.1097/PEP.0b013e3181f9d5b8 Case Study

    Effects of Motor Control Intervention for Children With Idiopathic Toe Walking: A 5-Case Series

    Clark, Elaine PT, DSc, PCS; Sweeney, Jane K. PT, PhD, PCS, FAPTA; Yocum, Allison PT, DSc, PCS; McCoy, Sarah W. PT, PhD



  19. #43
    estherderu
    Guest

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Hi Bobby,

    Thank you for letting us know about this article. Will look it up as well.
    Looking forward to a fruitfull discussion. Toewalkers are very HOT in the Netherlands at the moment and I hope to get other colleagues to comment here as well.

    Esther


  20. #44
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Country
    Flag of Canada
    Current Location
    Toronto
    Member Type
    Physiotherapy Student
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    21
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Rep Power
    34

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Quote Originally Posted by wullie View Post
    Hi Esther,

    sorry about that, I ment SPD-sensory processing dysfunction.

    Ilka
    I was just suggested that a hinged AFO can helped a lot. And a few theory behind and related treatments as below:
    Toe walking and autism:
    Why: a few theories
    · A sign of tactile hypersensitivity, the person is trying avoid the contact with the surface. --- Treatment based on this theory---aim at reducing sensory hypersensitivity by therapeutic brushing and graded desensitization to tactile input.
    · Is an attempt to self provide propriceptive input, and calm themselves. ---treatment based on this theory---provide the person with propriceptive input in other ways, such as jumping on a trampoline, stomping feet, walking in sand, providing traction and other activities involving compression/traction
    · Due to the tunnel vision--- treatment: prism lenses and vision training


  21. The Following User Says Thank You to zisuer For This Useful Post:

    toe walking in children with autism

    physio_m (10-06-2012)

  22. #45
    estherderu
    Guest

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    dear colleague to be...

    And where did you get this information?
    If you have read this thread carefully you will have seen that there is a lot of controversy about this issue.
    Please enlighten us to where your theories come from. I hope it comes from various sources and that you can share these with us.

    kind regards Esther


  23. #46
    Forum Member Array
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Country
    Flag of United States
    Current Location
    Queens, New York
    Member Type
    Other
    View Full Profile
    Posts
    23
    Thanks given to others
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Rep Power
    36

    Re: toe walking in children with autism

    Quote Originally Posted by zisuer View Post
    I was just suggested that a hinged AFO can helped a lot. And a few theory behind and related treatments as below:
    Toe walking and autism:
    Why: a few theories
    · A sign of tactile hypersensitivity, the person is trying avoid the contact with the surface. --- Treatment based on this theory---aim at reducing sensory hypersensitivity by therapeutic brushing and graded desensitization to tactile input.
    · Is an attempt to self provide propriceptive input, and calm themselves. ---treatment based on this theory---provide the person with propriceptive input in other ways, such as jumping on a trampoline, stomping feet, walking in sand, providing traction and other activities involving compression/traction
    · Due to the tunnel vision--- treatment: prism lenses and vision training
    Unfortunately, these dubious theories and treatments are practiced among PTs.



 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Back to top