Bullying of students

[Silkysplinter]

I am student in the UK and throughout my 3 years at various placements all I have witnessed is bullying and psychological torment of young trainees to the point some quiting the profession. I also experienced this type of behaviour from clinical educators and it made my life a misery. This seems to be happening mainly in the hospitals where clinical educators are just looking for any excuse to fail various students. I have never seen anything like this before and it makes me sick. The bullying and victimization and racism are rife and I am shocked nothing is being done to address this problem. After quailifying I think I may consider taking up another profession and may not continue as physio due to this behaviour ive witnessed. Im not the one to join ranks with bullies and bigots.

Similar Threads:

[Silkysplinter]

I am thinking of highlighting the problems young trianees face as students such as bullying, victimization and racism in the NHS. I have spent 3 years watching this behaviour being applied to students affecting their confidence and moral which affects their ability to function properly effecting their performance. Is it not time something was done about this???????.

[pudding_bowl]

What do you propose to do something about it. I'm not in the NHS, but it's interesting to hear your thoughts.

[physiobob]

It would be nice if you could provide examples of what you consider 'bullying' as we know everyone has a different opinion on that. This will be a hot topic with the CSP as it gains momentum and I have been reading about it in the electronic media recently, only written though by various student groups.

Do you think it is bullying in general within the NHS or are you saying it is just a physio issue?

[Silkysplinter]

Ive contacted the CSP and they are aware of the problem and going to be adressing some of the concerns raised at their next physio conference. This is the email I recevied from the chappy.



Hello again,

[email protected]

Also I forgot to tell you that the CSP Student body are submitting a motion to the Annual Conference this year which if passed, then has to be actioned. This is the jist of the motion:

Bullying at work is an ongoing issue within the physiotherapy profession despite previous measures from the CSP to address it. Recent letters in frontline report incidents of bullying and concerns about how it can affect students while on clinical placement. A significantly growing number of reports to the student executive committee back-up the fact that there is an ongoing issue.



In July 2009 the Royal College of Midwives released the results of their study into bullying of students: which concluded that many students were experiencing bullying behaviour while on placement. The report included a comprehensive set of recommendations.



Conference calls on the CSP to devise and implement effective solutions to this very serious problem, including:

Funding of research to find out the extent to which bullying behaviour is experienced during clinical placements
An article in Frontline and Managers News, which explains how to recognise the causes and symptoms of bullying at all levels within the profession and how to effectively address them.
Work with safety reps, managers, universities and human resource experts to devise effective solutions, including the creation of an in service training package for safety reps to deliver to members.
Support universities in tackling bullying and encouraging students to report it at an early stage.
As I say, it's a huge issue but one which I am determined to do something about.

Cheers

Jamie Mackler
Students' Adviser
CSP
The Chartered Society of Physiotherapy

[Theodoravoon]

what can we do about the bullying?

[ginger]

Dear Silkysplinter, I hear your comments about bullying during placements etc and I can sympathise.
From the comments you have made I gather these "bullies" are amongst the clinical supervisors and educators within hospitals.
If I remind myself of my own times at the effect of physio clinical bullies I can easily transport myself to a time when I felt crushed, unsupported, victimised and hurt. When I was a student in the early eighties I studied in a leading Australian Institute where the majority of students and educators were female. As a mature ( 28) tall male with confidence, I often found myself at the effect of similarly aged female tutors etc , who were somewhat intimidated by me.
At other times I felt the wrath of supervisors who seemed genuinely perplexed that I had the temerity to question the methods, ethics, approaches and cuddly sycophancy that seemed to me to be worthy of inquiry.
These people are delicate Silky, their minds and hearts are just as easily tormented as yours, it is just that they are in a position to mete out retribution to those who seem vulnerable, including you.
You could retaliate directly and take him/her aside for a concise exhortation of the folly of such behaviour , with a reminder that you are in need of their support , astonished at the lack of sensitivity, maturity and seemly behaviour.
You may then experience the cold wall of reality descend on you, sentencing yourself to a period of further , but more intense and more worrying attention from those who have power over your career.
Your best bet is to be as the Mongolians describe as " mountain face". Solid, timeless, inscrutable, unaffected by the moment by moment variables , focussed on the result.
You can and will overcome these tortures by the reminder that bullying by these miserable failed individuals is an indication of their pain , sense of failure and lowly position. If you are singled out, then you must be noteworthy.
Success is the best revenge. Soak it up as part of the right of passage into professional life. One day, with perseverance tenacity and courage , you may find yourself interviewing one of these weaklings , for a position you can provide.
Schadenfreude may yet even out the score.

[Silkysplinter]

Thanks for the wise words G, I'll definately take them into consideration. I will also pass your reply to other physios who are also experiencing such behaviour.


Cheers, and a happy new year.

[gcoe]

Hi Silkysplinter et al.

You sound quite hurt and traumatised by your experience. I see things from the side as an educator so thought I might chime in with some thoughts I have had over the years with the supervisor-student relationship.

• There is a vast variety of personalities in our profession and for every negative individual there will be two really nice people to deal with who enjoy taking students and one fantastic individual who was “born to teach”. Perhaps you may have had particularly bad luck with the supervisors you got
  
  The Physiotherapy Culture
  
• Having said that it is worth remembering our origins. We are a female dominated profession that has fought hard to establish the status of physiotherapy against a male dominated and very paternalistic profession. In the anglosaxon countries in times when there were few career options for women other than teaching and nursing, physiotherapists had higher status than nurses. I think this produced a culture of career women, strong personalities that spent time battling for their status in the medical system, who had to endure a lot of flack from a paternalistic and controlling medical profession and struggled for autonomy. I know this is to a greater extent in the past but I think the residual culture remains.
  
• Physiotherapy had a military background – the profession grew hugely during and after the great wars. Again this has left a bit of a mark on the culture- we can behave in paramilitary hierarchical ways still.
  
• These influences create a pecking order with students sitting on the bottom rung. A significant minority or physiotherapists (and yes it is a minority) behave as one might expect to see in a paramilitary organisation. You get the same thing happening in nursing. And part of this hierarchical behaviour is picking on the underling.
  
• I was also a mature male when I trained and I think on the whole this situation was much worse then. However by far the majority of people were great to work with and seemed genuinely interested in me as a student.
  
  I am not trying to justify this culture or behaviour. However I think it is instructive and can help put such behaviour into perspective.
  
  Problems with Educating the Educator
  
• In general the physiotherapy supervisor is not educated to educate!. Very few in clinical positions who are expected to take on a student caseload hold any qualification in tertiary level teaching. I understand this is a bit different in the UK but in Australia and NZ there is no formal route for education. This is a very unsatisfactory situation that has persisted for too long. Until there are incentives for gaining education qualitfications eg, an accreditation system for supervisors with true reflection in pay rates for those who are accredited and do take students I don’t think this will change
  
• Universities – at least in our part of the world have to beg for placements – there is generally a shortage of core placements and as beggars we can’t be choosers. As an educator I know lots of fantastic supervisors who do a great job and then there may be the odd few I would rather not have as dealing with my students but I am not in a position to choose. We do what we can to influence our supervisors through feedback and offering informal continuing professional development
  
  What Students Can Do
  
• It is great when students report these problems with bullying. When a number of students have reported a problem with a particular clinician it gives the school a chance to address the issue not just with the supervisor but also with the hospital/clinical management. We need to encourage a culture that addresses that.
• intimidation and manipulative behaviour can be a two way highway. I have observed and been alerted to appalling behaviour on part of students. Because of the work culture this is much easier to address but it needs to be said that this happens.
• Sometimes the student lacks self-awareness of the effect they have on their patients and supervisors. I have seen situations where supervisors have become wholly frustrated with the behaviour of students that they "loose their rag" with the student - who may be baffled by the outburst. I am not trying to justify the supervisors behaviour but it can be understood and solution to the problem may sometimes lie with the student, not the supervisor.
  

When it comes down to it physios can be a great bunch of people to work with. Some workplaces are dysfunctional while others can be such rewarding places to work. I wouldn't make a decision not to pursue your career just on experiences you have had to date.

[alophysio]

Hi Silkysplinter,

I agree with Ginger and the info above is helpful.

Don't be despondent...instead, take it on the chin - not that their behaviour is right but because physiotherapy itself will be better for it - we need people like you.

My worst experience is on a 4th year clinical placement in paediatrics. The supervisor said on the first day that if there were any issues, to let her know. Cool. I let her know that i had JUST been diagnosed with a sleep disorder which i had a medical certificate for and the doctor recommended i rest 20mins at lunch time. The student room was 10mins walk there and then back so not enough time to sleep but at the physio department - which was EMPTY - i wasn't allowed to sleep on a plinth behind a curtain - who would have even known i was there?

Anyway, that was fine because rules are rules and i can handle that. What i couldn't handle well was the systematic picking on every little detail that i did wrong. She even told me in my mid-point evaluation that i was wrong to tell her about my condition and that i was whinging about it. Ha!

The worst was when i did a clinical evaluation of a child, i did ok for a student but she took me to task over it and i passed, maybe got a credit. A fellow student did pretty much the same thing and he got a high distinction!! Now THAT is biased clinical supervisor behaviour!!!

Having supervised students and staff, i can tell you that i have high expectations but balance the negatives with lots of positives. I question them lots and challenge them lots but i think i am fair.

Be the best physio you can be. Try to see your supervisors as stressed out and unable to give the encouragement that they didn't receive themselves.

All the best

[Barnett]

Bullying is a form of abuse. It comprises repeated acts over time that involves a real or perceived imbalance of power with the more powerful individual or group abusing those who are less powerful. In other words Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.

[Silkysplinter]

Thanks for the advice. The most recent issue of frontline magazine for physiotherapits has just reported a massive surge in bullying amongst physios and seems to be a growing trend. Also the CSP has had a meeting where this issue has just been discused, for further infromation check out the CSP website UK and FRONTLINE 3 MARCH 2010, there is also more info to be publishd on 17 MARCH IN THE FRONTLINE. The stewards/safety reps, Julia Tabrah, North west UK and Racheal Pope South west South who spoke at the recennt conferences claim they have been unindated with emails letters and phone calls concerning bullying.This isa big problem in the UK and is grwoing and needs to be nipped in the bud. I would like to thank Patrick MCarthy SEC Chair from the CSP for raising these issues.

[alophysio]

Bullying is wrong and should have no place in our system at all...

...but as devil's advocate for a moment...

...do you think people would perceive it to be bullying if your senior asked you a question that you didn't know the answer to? Obviously ridicule and scorn would be wrong but would incompetence or a lack of knowledge make someone feel "inferior" and therefore "bullied"?

Just a thought...

[Silkysplinter]

Bullying on Physio placements is making students lives hell. I can honestly say it is endemic and rife in the North of England, not to mention the racism. Everytime minority students come here, they are hounded out or failed. It is really bad and something that needs to be done to help these poor souls. I live in a town with over 50,000 black minority people and there is only one asain physio in the whole NHS trust>???????????

[physiobob]

Please be constructive with any post of this nature. Just blowing off steam isn't much use and does not gain constructive support. Bullying is terrible in all it's forms. But then there are those who assume everyone is bullying them as well. Careful, thoughtful dialogue will gain respect and considerate responses. This is a must if one wishes to begin to form a pathway for change.

[gcoe]

Perhaps it is time in the UK that the CSP the student body, reps from NHS management, university educators, and trade unions got together to come up with a plan of how to assess and address the problem.

To understand the problem there has to be some decent research into the issue - such as a well conducted survey in which you have buy-in from all parties. One can't rely on anecdote based on individual reports. And one should always be vigilant that this doesn't end up becoming some sort of witch-hunt - a well documented social phenomena. Such reports of "endemic behaviour on the rise" need to be based on sound evidence.

It would be interesting to know what the what the make-up of ethnicity is amongst students applying for physiotherapy placements student rolls, staff in the NHS and hwo this reflects the communities they are serving.

[hughesa]

Don't let anyone bully you. Just hit them really hard. With a bat if you need to.