Timelines for the credentals process in Canada by the Allaince.

[emad]

HI,

I applied for my education credential assessment in Canada Oct. 2011. Has anyone applied in 2011 for credtial assessment. Let us share our timelines here? Seems there is backlog according to the alliance website. Even they have not updated information since August 2011.

cheers

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[Danappan]

Hi There,

Its now taking ages for the credentialing process, and no one seem to be bothered about it much.!!!!

I applied in March 2010 ( time frame posted on the website was 4-6months)

1st Assessment result came in December 2010 (took 9 months). result Not Eligible for PLAR asked to send more documents

2nd set of document send from my School by 1st week of January 2011 ( Results would be made available within 8-12 weeks according to the Alliance)

2nd Assessment result came in September 2011,( took 8 months) Eligible for PLAR, was asked to apply for PLAR

Applied for PLAR with payment within 2 days of receipt of 2nd results ( PLAR package would come within 2-4 weeks according to the Alliance)

PLAR package received in December 2011 ( Took 8 weeks, and was at the verge of filing a case against them for this kind of unethical delays)

So from Initial filing of completed application to PLAR package receipt - Time take is 21 Months!! (How sweet of the Alliance!!!!)


For them the applications and the time delays are just "paperwork"... for us it is our LIFE, our Career, Our families who depend on us....none of which seems to have any value to the Alliance!!

[en equilibre]

Hey folks,

I applied for Canadian credentialling from Australia in Sept 2010. They take forever. I had work lined up in Vancouver for mid 2011 and had to cancel it. It's ridiculous as it has taken me so much $$ and the way they operate is so low tech I can't believe it.

Despite the fact that so many Physios from Sydney University, Australia have been credentialled they still have not completed my application. It is now Jan 2012. Go figure...

If this is any indication of how the physio system works in Canada I'm not sure I even want to bother any more.

[Danappan]

Hey en eq,

Have you checked the alliance website, they seems to have some info about the current status of the applications, not too much info, but still will tell you what stage is ur processing in!. And just a heads up, I know that in Australia there is a lot of advances in manipulation and mobilisation teqniues stuff like mulligan etc.. but dont expect to find that in Canada, the Registered Physio just assess the patients and sets up a treatment protocol, mostly exercise therapy techs, gait training, balance training, use of assistve devices etc and some ultrasound therapy.. that all the Physiotherapy you can find here in Canada. As fas I know if you want to do some real hard core therapy like spinal mobilizations, then you need to take separate classes and insurance etc before you can. The bulk of the treatments are carried out by PT assistants or aides, and if you are unlucky enough to get a job as a PT assistant in an old age care home, you will have to treat about 70- 80 residents a day and break your back each day before you go home. Although there is a time limit set by the ministry which should be followed, it hardly ever is. What the ministry says is that to be counted as one session of physiotherapy for 1 person who needs individual care the min time limit is 15mis, and for a group exercise program, a group of no more than 4 residents for 15 mins minimum. Where I used to work, i was made to handle about 15-20 residents in one group for about 20-25 mins. The PT's make the PT assistant do it, because the PT's are paid per person they treat on a daily basis. the more residents a PTA treats, more money the PT gets.. as simple as that.... The case in clinics are also pretty much similiar, may be not too much of exercise therapy but pretty much the same picture.


I just want you to know how things work in Canada, Good Luck.

[Crystal R. Westergard]

Dear Danappan, It sounds like you have been experiencing the low end of physiotherapy practice! In Alberta the physios in care of the elderly are not paid by how many they see per day, or see per hour or per anything. The physio is paid a set rate regardless. In respected private practices, physios here do mobs, manips and mulligan techniques too. Perhaps when you should move to Alberta or Saskatchewan? You will need a course in manips if you want to manip people's spines. But considering you could paralyse someone, I think that's reasonable. If you have the potential to rise above the kind of physiotherapy practices you describe, then I encourage you to do so!

[Danappan]

Dear Danappan, It sounds like you have been experiencing the low end of physiotherapy practice! In Alberta the physios in care of the elderly are not paid by how many they see per day, or see per hour or per anything. The physio is paid a set rate regardless. In respected private practices, physios here do mobs, manips and mulligan techniques too. Perhaps when you should move to Alberta or Saskatchewan? You will need a course in manips if you want to manip people's spines. But considering you could paralyse someone, I think that's reasonable. If you have the potential to rise above the kind of physiotherapy practices you describe, then I encourage you to do so!

Hey Crystal,

No offense meant, I just wrote what I have been though, and I know of many other people who are also going through the same system, but then again, we are not in Alberta, but in Ontario. I am sure you have better working conditions in Alberta, but that to me is still a distant dream for people like us here in Ontario. And to rise above the established system here, is something I really long for and hope to do it as soon as I am through with my PCE, but till then ........ PT assistants are assistants with no voice in any decision making process, no matter even if you are a master deg holder with more than 6 years of formal PT training at a university level abroad.

[emad]

I am so happy to see the discussion is going great here about the credentials , because most of the past threads here on the forum are not that good and descripative. According to the Allaince website there is backlog and many applicants meaning we will have more applicants sharing us their experience soon . So far, we have indian, australian, dutsh physiotherapists and Canadian physiotherapist Crystal who we wish sharing us more information about the canadian context.

Dana, Thank you very much for the loaded attached reports. I took fast glance but I will studied them well then write post here soon about them.

Great wishes to all

[sami.crpt]

oh! my! am a bit worried as my status is just started...and i understand there is long way to go from ur post.God help!!

[emad]

Hi Dana,

Great to hear your experience with the Alliance. The most important crucial point is by delaying, The Alliance is keeping US out of practice which is negative for Canada and us as professionals after arriving as immigrants. It is unreasonable. What did your school send for the second assessment ? because it would be frustrating for me as my school sent every thing they can sent from the first package.

I have some expectations what are they going to ask me as part of the PLAR, so as they are reallly taking such years to complete the assessment I am thinking just go directly and try complete these parts needed without waiting them. After the application, they sent me confirmation letter saying I will need something regarding physiotherapy within Canadian CONTEXT. sO, what did they say you need to take courses for ? is it the 5th criteria for professionalism and quality assurance and evidence based practice.

It would be great if you keep discussing to get other applicants here share us, I think there are many in the BACKLOG.

CHEERS

[Crystal R. Westergard]

I can comment on the "physiotherapy with Canadian context" problem. They want you to have an understanding of how physio works in Canada. you can either read a book they send you, or work for a few months in a clinic, or if you are in Canada, take the course at your local uni. - Hope that helps.

[Danappan]

Hi emad,

What my school send the second time was almost the same papers they send the first time, but this time they had underlined the course descriptions and subjects etc...Which AGAIN SHOWS THAT THE alliance didn't even care to go through the documents which was submitted initially. I am pretty sure all this delaying is purposeful to get as much money from us as possible and to limit the entry for foreign trained professional into the job market.

As for the PLAR subject you might want to think about doing the course offered by the university of Toronto " Orientation Course for internationally educated healthcare professionals" which would help you to cover any content gaps in Professional Conduct/Ethics, Inter professional Practice/multidisciplinary Practice and the Context of Physiotherapy Practice in Canada Which comes under the section of Professional and integrated practice.

Now if you know that you will have to do a course in Evaluation/Research section, then going for the CHSM 417 "Research Methodology' by Ryerson University will help you to cover content gaps in all subjects of the Evaluation/research section, which includes:

• Research design and Methodology
• Critical Appraisal
• Statistics

As well as one subject in the Professional and Integrated practice section, which is Evidence based practice. Now this course give you only 3 credits, so if you lack only 3 credits in these areas then this one course will help u to cove these 4 subjects, but if you are lacking in more than 3 credits, then you will have to take this course and again another course to cover your credits. (Ex. Say you need 6 credits in this section, you can do this course, which will give you 3 credits, then do another course for statistics alone which will give you another 3 credits.)

Both these courses are per-approved by the alliance, so you could take them in advance esp the orientation course which is not a big deal, its just 6 sessions of online class and discussions.


best of luck with ur PLAR results!!

thanks.

[vengop]

HELLO DHANAPPAN,

thanks for explaining about PLAR.

Can i do all the deficient courses or gaps u mentioned, before applying for credentialling?(gaps which i identified according to me and i want to do this in order to save time).

or

should the alliance say and then only i can proceed ?

[Danappan]

Hi Vengop, sorry for the delay. You can definitely go ahead and do the courses if you so wish to do it. In fact it is a smart move and can save you a lot of time. Just be careful that you do course that are already pre-approved by the Alliance, so that they will accept their results. If you want some help to know about pre approved university courses maybe I can help you, but Pls be specific about ur doubts, and not like some other ppl who just come in here and expect to be spoon fed everything. Thanks and sorry once again for the delay in replying.

[emad]

Thanks Dana,
Very much good information you are providing here. It was strange a bit for me that not many applicants here on the forum are writing their experiences with the Canadian Alliance of physio. So, I apperciate your sharing here. Personally, my study includes research methodolgy, research, pharmacology, psychology and all these things they ask most applicants for. it is just the Evidence based practice which I tried search for courses and I found very expensive EBP workshops around 2.000 dollars. But the link is very good course online covers the canadian context and evidence as well as ethics. I will register for this course you advised, thank you.

Does The Alliance say within the assessment report about credits ? The issue of credits is really not clear for me, as I do not know the canadian system about it neither the Physio Alliance classification for the credits of each cretria. Let us take an example of the 6th cretria of Professionalism, of course I copied it from perivous applicants here on the forum:

6.Foundational knowledge area: professional and integrated practice
(a) the assessment determines if you completed course work and sufficient credits in
- independent practice / autonomous practice / primary care
- evidence-based practice
- professional conduct, ethics and standards of practice
- inter-professional practice, multidisciplinary practice, health care team and consultation;
- principles of physiotherapy management and administration (e.g., information systems, marketing, human and fiscal resource management, business management); and
- case based integration, integrated practice, integrated tutorials, synthesis in special
themes, professional consolidation and reflective practice.

we will also give credits to any of the following courses. this means that if the program you completed included the above courses but you did not have enough credits in those courses, we will give credits to any of the following courses:

- physiotherapy in long term conditions, health management across the continuum, professional transition, education and advocacy, program evaluation (quality assurance).

(b) Assessment outcome - course work
we did not find evidence of any course work in
- independent practice / autonomous practice / primary care;
- evidence-based practice;
- professional conduct, ethics and standards of practice
- principles of physiotherapy management and administration (e.g., information
systems,marketing, human and fiscal resource management, business
management); and
- case based integration, integrated practice, integrated tutorials, synthesis in
special themes, professional consolidation and reflective practice.

(c) Assessment outcome - credits
you have met the minimum number of credits we require in this area

Back again commenting, the first thing seems the Alliance does not ask any more for the integrated practice according to their website.
For me a report containing the above quote needs an interpretor to explain what means a) b) c) ......abit complexity which is unecessary. so from your experience How did you interprate/ understand your report ?

wishing you the best with your exams written and practical

[Danappan]

Hey Emad, Sorry for the late reply

I had a lot of help to interpret the assessment results, from my friends who had already gone through with the process. The aplliance present it in such a way that it seems they are very descriptive about the results but actually make it very confusing for the applicants without give us a proper guidelines on how to understand or rather decipher their evaluation.

I am not sure on how their credit system works, I too have have got conflicting results, for many of the subject areas, for some they say you have met the minimum number of credits but do not find any evidence of coursework!!!!! how would i get the credits if i do not have enough coursework????? I an attaching 2 scans of my assessment sheets:-
pg3.jpgpg4.jpg


Do get back to me if you have any specific questions, i will try to help you. tc, `dana

[kitty m]

Hello Danappan.. Those two papers of your assessment result u have attached here , help me lot to understand the process what they want from us..
If possible can you provide us whole assessment result. so that i can get full information.
Thanks..

[emad]

HI en equilibre,

Why did the Alliance take with your assessment such long time ? Is it because of the documents your school should send ? Please, give us here history of what happened with you through your process !! after you applied did they get back to you after 6 months asking for more documents !!

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

Canada News Centre - Government of Canada helping foreign-trained physiotherapists get jobs

Government of Canada helping foreign-trained physiotherapists get jobs
TORONTO, ONTARIO, JANUARY 25, 2011-The Government of Canada is helping internationally trained physiotherapists find meaningful work faster. Mr. Dean Del Mastro, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Canadian Heritage, on behalf of the Honourable Diane Finley, Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development, made the announcement today.

"We recognize the importance of helping foreign-trained health care practitioners get jobs in their fields," said Mr. Del Mastro. "Through Canada's Economic Action Plan, we are working with partners to improve foreign credential recognition. Projects like this one will help new Canadians put their knowledge and skills to work sooner in communities across Canada."

The Canadian Alliance of Physiotherapy Regulators is receiving support from the Foreign Credential Recognition Program to improve its current system for assessing the education and work experience of foreign-trained physiotherapists. The Alliance will research best practices for credential and language evaluations used internationally and in related fields in Canada. This will result in a series of recommendations to streamline the overall licensing process for internationally trained physiotherapists wanting to practise in Canada.

Under the Pan-Canadian Framework for the Assessment and Recognition of Foreign Qualifications, the Government of Canada is working with the provinces and territories and other partners, such as regulatory bodies, to address barriers to foreign credential recognition.

In 2010, service standards were established so that foreign-trained professionals in eight priority occupations, including nurses and physiotherapists, can have their qualifications assessed within one year, anywhere in Canada. This is one example of progress toward a more fair, transparent, timely and consistent system for foreign credential recognition across Canada.

This year, we will start improving foreign qualification recognition for six more target occupations, including physicians and dentists.

The physiotherapists' project, which is receiving over $100,000 from the Government of Canada, demonstrates how the Framework is bringing meaningful change to the way that newcomers' qualifications are assessed and recognized in Canada.

To learn more about Canada's Economic Action Plan, visit Canada's Economic Action Plan.

- 30 -

This news release is available in alternative formats upon request.

For further information (media only):

Michelle Bakos
Press Secretary
Office of Minister Finley
819-994-2482

Media Relations Office
Human Resources and
Skills Development Canada
819-994-5559

[Mathijs Hamelink]

Hello,

I applied around december 2011 for credentialling. I was lucky enough that they didnt charge me extra because of the price increase of credentialling. For me the biggest problem is getting my university to send in the paperwork. And get my diploma's signed (I sent in an english one signed and everything by my university but it wasnt enough... :S). I am hoping they get to working soon, as I am due to leave the netherlands soon

[emad]

Hi Crystal,

Nice to see Canadian physiotherapist sharing us our discussion here regarding credentials process in Canada. One of the first requirements is the physiotherapy practice within Canadain context which you are expert in explaining or advising . Personally, I have not come in enough contact with Canadian physiotherapists yet to share my view regrading advances or latest developments in physiotherapy practice. However, I do like to read Dana ,s views regarding canadian physio. practice from internationally educated physiotherapist. He or she worked as assistant and is writing what has been done.
I think that is fine to read some critisim regarding physio. practices and culture connected practice in Canada.
The other thing Manipulation is not that safest and Mulligan is not the latest, there is much more advnces to think of the nerve and the whole nervous system in dealing with the pain rather dealing with the bones.

When I am writing now, an idea came to my mind made me laughing which is I can not say the above view to a supervisor canadian physiotherapist if I am going to go through a temporary licence.
I will try to get the thread on track for the credentials asking you after assuming you dealt with internationally educated physiotherapists going through credentials , what do you think the things/ tricks/ points those physios need to take care of while going through PCE exams written and practical ?

cheers

[Crystal R. Westergard]

I too have worked as an assistant to not-so-fine physiotherapists at large intitutions working with the elderly. It is easy to get trapped into thinking that most physio is done that way. What happens is that if an institution has low standards and poor work ethic among the physios, then it is hard to get Canadian assistants. So these places hire international physio assistants who feel they have few options to leave. It is a trap. Can someone get out of this trap? YES! of course, you will get out when you pass the exams. You will also do better if you improve your English.
I don't know any tricks to speed up the process with the alliance. Perhaps I will learn some in time. What we need to do as Canadian physio, is to improve the way the alliance communicates to applicants. If enough of us raise our voice about it, it will get done.

[emad]

Hi again Dana,
Great, I went in detail through the 2 pages you attached up. Now, It is clear for me the report because the papers you attached are showing clearly the 3 sub-sections used in the report. From past experiences by other applicants here on the forum they used to mention briefly about their report. Now it is fine to read the report.
The only point which I am woondering about is for the biology area the report says that you did not attend course in Pathology. So, Do you have to/ need take pathology course ?
Thanks

[amburghall]

Thank you all for the detailed information!

I'm working in the UK (having trained here as well, worked for 2 years) and starting the process of moving abroad.
I am planning on moving to canada however only for a year or 2 on a working holiday visa to confirm that I want to move for good.
I have close family in Vancover so would be heading there.

Based on the above threads I'm thinking this seems like a crazy plan as it seems to take 1-2 years to sort all the paperwork out,
I've liaised with my uni and all the paperwork for creditials is sorted out and ready to send off.... but have a few concerns that maybe someone could help me out with.

I'm just wondering what the actual job situation is like in Canada as it's a bit scary to do all this work and give up a job over here for the unknown.
Once you have compleated the first step am I correct in thinking that if you book onto the first avaliable exams you then can apply for temporary registration within the province you wish to work in.
From there you can apply for jobs as long as your boss/colleague agrees to supervise you until you pass the exams and then apply for permenant registration.
Is this something that realistically happens or do you have to wait until you pass the exams and gain full registration?

I know most job contracts are for 1 year. Is this limited to a certain time such as start of the financial year or can it depend.
One option I was considering as I have few ties would be a short term contract over a winter season at a resort. Does anyone know much about these private contracts
and again realistically the chances of employment.

I realise that these questions are verging away from the topic of the thread but any help would be appreciated, as I don't want to start the process until I am more aware of the next stages involved.
Thank you!!

A.Burghall UK

[Crystal R. Westergard]

Dear Burghall,
The actual job situation is that the jobs are everywhere. I went on the BC website and there are more jobs in Vancouver than the
whole province combined! So don't spend a moment worrying about that!
Finding an employer while you have zero exams passed will be harder. In ALberta where I have the most experience, the government
places hire such employees. So you may try intitutions, care homes, ect. Reputable clinics will be cautious to hire an uncredentialled
person and then "sign for them" on charting. I have done that, so it can be done, but you need to work well with the therapist who
is overseeing you, so you need a great "chemistry". So to be clear, without having passed the written exam you may not call yourself
a physiotherapist or perform independantly doing assessments. YOu are basically an assistant. So look up assitant jobs on the BC website.
Contracts begin and end throughout the year. Remember we are DESPERATE for physios here. We're not going to pass on one just because
he/she wants to start in June!

I think the resort idea is a fantasy. I know of no resorts that hire physios for winter contracts. They may rent treatment rooms to physios
for the winter, but then you are paying them! Clinics near resorts might hire you for a season. Try that. I know Kelowna and Osoyoos are
hiring right now.
Best of Luck, If someone who is living in Vancouver wants to refine the points I've made here, that would be great.

[emad]

How to read the Alliance assesment report :

There should be new thread regarding how to read/ interpret/ understand the Alliance report because it is really confusing in its main idea. The confusing point is between sub-section B and Sub-section c . In sub-section B, The alliance lists the course which are not studied by the applicant. In Sub-section c, The Alliance says if the applicant meets the minimum credits or needs more credits.

My understanding from the above 2 pages attached by Dana, If the Alliance wrote in green colour that you meet the minimum credits then you passed this area. Am I correct ?

[Mathijs Hamelink]

Hello emad

in subsection B they explain if what specific courses they are missing from the whole topic (the numbers indicate topics, under A they explain what courses they are looking at for that specific topic). then you can compensate for missing certain topics with other topics, so you might be missing 2 courses but because your program contains other topics they give you credits for those, and in the end they tell you wether or not you passed the whole topic