very bad thoracic spine/muscle pain

[gnomes]

i had this problem over a year ago and its returned . the mid back muscles around my thoracic spine are absolute agony when ive been asleep for a few hours and the pain is horrendous, i cant even turn over its that painful .at present even taking a footstep i can painfully feel in my thoracic spine .i cycle to work everyday which i enjoy but every bump i painfully felt in my mid spine
i triggered the problemm on sunday during a leg squatting day and strongly feel its the compression of my spine causing the horrendous pain ... im was fairly ok doing the squat but it gradually got worse but when i racked the weight to take the load off my spine , the pain in and around the mid thoracic area was even worse then eased off a tad
this morning i cannot even lift my torso up from a lying down position ( ie a traditional sit up) . also if i do apelvic tilt and flatten my spine agains the floor the pain is horrendous .to lift something only moderately heavy in front of me causses high pain in my mid spine.
i had chiro treatment last year but he could not make things better but he did one thing that was EXCRUTIATING ....he told me to cross my arms and he basically lifted my whole body up from my armpits in a SHARP JOLT and thepain in my spine was unbeleivable (10/10) .... he basically stretched my spine for a second .
i have had AN X RAY an MRI earlier this year . nothing major but heres what it said THERE IS A LITTLE DEGENERATIVE REDUCTION ON THE LOWER 3 LUMBAR DISCS BUT NO FOCAL DISC PRORTRUSION. THE FACET JOINTS LOOK UNREMARKABLE .NO PARAVERERTABRAL MASSES DETECTED . BONE MARROW SIGNAL LOOKS WITHIN NORMAL LIMITS. NO THORACIC DISC PROTRUSION IS SEEN ALTHOUGH SOME OF THE ENDPLATES ARE SLIGHTLY IRREGULAR WITH FAIRLY SLENDER DISC.THERER IS EXTREMELY SUBTLE SUB ENDPLATE INCREASED SIGNAL RETURN AT MULTIPLE THORACIC LEVELS BUT NO FRACTURES DETECTED. THE THORACIC CORD LOOKS NORMAL CALIBRE AND SIGNAL RETURN . THE RIGHT NEUTRAL EXIT FORAMINA LOOKS NORMAL.
CONCLUSION . SUBTLE SCHEURMANS OSTEOCHONDRITIS ON THE THORACIC SPINE.
to me the pain feels like my discs are rubbing and the outer muscles are going into spasm to protect my spine but im just guessing .... but one important point i havnt merntioned was i had a very bad cycle accident 13 years ago and i went over my handlebars at 25mph and landed upright on my head and my neck taking the severe impact . my neck is still bad to this day ie pain and range of movement ... do you feel it could be this adding to my mid back problem and i am also not convinced the SCHEURMANS is whats causing me this very bad pain in my thoracic spine again.
to sum it up , i get skeletal & muscle pain if lift my torso up out of bed or do a single sit up ,run or jog , any vibrations through my body(cycling) i can feel tenfold through my thoracic spine , lift anything in front of me , simply walking is painful at present as every footstep i feel in my spine , plus the severe pain that awakes me through the night.
i had some DICLOFENIC left over from last time so ive been using that . my GP and the sysyem is not very helpful as if i want to get my back looked at it has to go through all the proper routes from gp refer to physio , then physio get you to do weeks of core strengthening etc and all this takes months before anything productive gets done .
im realy down as i take pride in my body and health and train weights 4 days a week and 2 days core with 5 days of cycling to work ..... is there something i can do for my back that will help it , ie stretches , core moves that will aid my back issue. . any ideas what COULD be WRONG with my back (thoracic area)would be most appreciated

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[BenMort]

Hello

First off this sounds complicated and you definitely need to see someone. This wont get better with advice from the internet. I am not a chiropractor but knowing what they do and the position you describe, sounds like he did 'the dog' on you and tried to manipulate your spine, however I may be wrong.

One thing that stood out for me was the bike accident. Your lack of neck range of motion will definitely be affecting your thoracic spine, particularly as you are active (a good thing) so where the neck movement stops, another structure will have to take over. This is made even worse by the fact you have a problem with the lumbar vertebrae too from the MRI which puts even more stress on the thoracic spine. What is your shoulder range of motion like? Can you lift your arms above your head?

Also what are your easing factors?

I would go light for the next few weeks on the weights and forget about sit ups. and also, cycling is not great for the thoracic spine, or any of the spine for that matter. This doesn't mean you have to stop, but if you are cycling, make sure in the gym you are doing exercises to balance it out.

I think the problem is due to poor range of motion in other parts of the body which has now affected the thoracic spine and lack of treatment.

Hope this helps,

Ben

[Judith Mollet]

my GP and the sysyem is not very helpful as if i want to get my back looked at it has to go through all the proper routes from gp refer to physio , then physio get you to do weeks of core strengthening etc and all this takes months before anything productive gets done .
im realy down as i take pride in my body and health and train weights 4 days a week and 2 days core with 5 days of cycling to work ..... is there something i can do for my back that will help it , ie stretches , core moves that will aid my back issue. . any ideas what COULD be WRONG with my back (thoracic area)would be most appreciated
There is probably no "quick fix" for your back as the problem has been around some time now. I suspect you are being very over enthusiastic with your training /weights and are making it worse. Your body is telling you to step down the intensity a bit and reconsider. You need an appointment with a suitable Doctor and then a suitable physio. You probably need suitable medication to help calm the pain down before it gets worse. Core training is not the only treatment for your or anyones back problem. As you say mobility may be an issue, posture at work and play probably as well. A neck and back assessment should be done.There are many sensible satisfying ways of being active and /or regaining activity levels without abusing your body! Is there no qualified supervision in the place you train weights? Someone to corrrect your core programm? And sorry, I repeat myself in saying you have to be patient and it may take some time. At nearly 50 you have a number of years left for exercise so you have time!

[gnomes]

hi "benmort" , thankyou for your comments .i think you are correct in assuming its my neck and poor ROM in other areas that is causing the issues in my spine that is over compensating and getting regular painful sprians and spasms. its so annoying that the spine specialist dodnt allow my neck for the mri , only the lumber and thoracic spine.but i was happy at the time just to grab that as they dont dish out MRIs willy nilly ......
easing factors are keeping moving/working and being upright . looking down/reading realy hurts the base of my cervical spine . i can feel a large hard lump of i think is scar tissue that gets soooo painful and stiff and cracks out loud when i look left and right when its the cold . my gp says it is normal but because im managing with it i feel they are just fobbing me off .
ROM in my shoulders is average to good but i cant do that broomstick stretch where you hold the ends and move it up and over ... i just dont have that flexibility but practicing with rubber bands.
as regards to the original herrendous pain , this just eased off after four or five days and touch wood hasnt returned but i did long light session of barbell curls very strict with no swinging and after my thoracic spine was screaming/painful for the reamainder of the evening but almost fine by the morning. i realy do feel it in my cervical spine and in turn my thoracic area.
all the best !

- - - Updated - - -

hi judith
thankyou too for your most helpful comments . i do train ALOT lighter and stricter now and trying to keep pressure off my spine . getting a suitable doctor or physio on the nhs in my opinion os impossible.... i simply get pigeon holed as have a poor posture and core so again they just fob you off with half a dozen core exercises for a few months then tell you to return to your GP if problems persist which obviously they do. just geytting the MRI took around 18 moths from seeing gp to getting physio refer after physio refer then finally getting allowed an MRI.
BEST REGARDS

[Judith Mollet]

Hi again. I have to throw in a couple of questions regarding your posture and core. You do in terms of time masses of training sessions adressing weight lifting and also core and cycling to work (you don't say how far each way but it's good cardiac work). Do you have supervision whilst training or not? It seems the efforts you take don't seem to make your quality of back/neck fitness "better" in the end..do they? Apart from less pain what are you aiming for? "Posture" is poor you said. Why? Now we all have certain body shapes dictated by what we got and developed whilst growning. We have backs with curves and backs that are flatter and backs that have left-right curves and basic structure is there to stay.....BUT with adequate muscles and awareness of HOW we are using our bodies we can make the best of a bad handout and can maybe prevent the normal state of getting older causing too much pain and stiffness for example..Also not everyone has the same muscle handout....people who sprint 100m are not the same as marathon runners. Adaption for various uses is possible to a certain extent but if we, despite our efforts at weight lifting sit around like a couch potato for 8 hours a day (what is your work?) and present at physio with really bad sitting posture when you could do better....even with your given superstructure...Weight lifting will not help you sit straight. Sitting straight and being aware of how you are sitting/standing/whatever helps you sit straight. And maybe your skeleton won't sit as straight as the guy next door, ever. Maybe you need Pilates sessions...something else? something completely different? As to MRI and all the rest of the picture taking: a bad or good picture is OK for finding out that you bones are not collapsed or riddled with cancer. Otherwise there are limitations to helping in diagnosis of "WHY and WHAT" one has. Lots of people put too much emphasis on a picture like MRI 's to find out what is wrong and lots will be dissapointed because the picture shows the picture but not always (in fact most of the time not) why the body hurts. It might give you piece of mind if nothing is really bad but then, as we can't replace your back and neck with a new one it's down to sensible sport and lifestyle and the realisation that "less" can mean "more". I recently spent 2 months convincing a fairly fit determined 70 yr old to change his attitude (as well as doing hands on physio for a terrible neck pain problem) and take more notice of his posture and do less punishing exercises and running that he'd been convinced of having to do them for years. He finally listened after putting up a fight and defending his exercises and was 200% better. Think about it!!
It's a shame the NHS physio seems to have blinkers on.....in your experience, glad I am out of it! Regards Judith Mollet