knee stiffens after running, any ideas?

[Gav]

I'm what you might call an enthusiastic older part-time footballer. In recent weeks when walking or playing football for about 20 mins my right knee stiffens so that bending it is vey difficult and it makes further walking/running impossible. Yet after 20 mins rest it is ok again??

Although I'm now 44 I've played football all my life (almost!) and I warm-up and down properly, rarely suffering from any muscular problems (I know my limits). I haven't had any knocks that might have caused this.

I don't get sharp pain, or an area of pain that I can put my finger on, and it clears up so quickly I don't think it is muscular? If I try to run it off it gets to the point where I get a tingling in my right (back hamstring and buttock/back area). It is very odd that it clears up, but when I try running again after 20 mins the stiffness returns.

Any ideas? It's very frustrating as I don't want to retire to the golf course yet!

thanks

Gav

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[Gav]

Ok, more info

after about 15 mins of running/walking fast it feels like a 'dead-leg' in my right knee. Kind of numb with some tingling. No specific pain in any part just a general feeling of weakness.

If I sit down for 10 mins the sensation has gone and I can carry on

Any help would be much appreciated

Gav

[junior_physiotherapist]

Hi Mr Gav,

Firstly i think u've to seek for physician(in internal medicien,neurology,orthopedic,) in order to give us more assessment about ur case..
Any way ,i think ur case seems like some one have an intermittent claudication(exercise pain due to cramping of muscles with exercises when there is ischamia,or being have a knee cyst (at the popliteal fossa),compression on fibular nerve,soreness wether from solues muscle or gastrocnemiuse muscle,

what about ur current gait,clinical history as being have diabeus milletus!!,...

hope his help u..

Regards

[Gav]

thanks, I'll go look up what the long words mean!

Thanks for your help

[alophysio]

Hi Gav,

Ordinarily, i would agree that it could be intermitent claudication - narrowed arteries, usually the femoral artery but you mention that there is tingling in the back and buttock area - this is usually not a sign of femoral artery claudication.

It is possible that there is some sciatic / back involvement.

It is difficult to diagnose on such limited information. Obviously you aren't a physio so if you could answer the following questions, it might help us physios to help you!

1. Where exactly is the pain and altered sensation?
2. When you rest, do you stretch or just sit down and the movement comes back?
3. Have you had back pain before in the past?
4. Do you take any medication?
5. Do you notice it at any other time? i.e. apart from running around?
6. What happens when you bend over, lean back, twist etc?
7. Do you think you have "tight" muscles in general?

Thanks!

[Gav]

1. Where exactly is the pain and altered sensation?

back of the knee is stiff after exercise, kind of a tingling around the outside of the knee and a bit up the back of the right leg and base of spine if I try to tun it off. Could be sciatica but the first sensation is in the knee?

2. When you rest, do you stretch or just sit down and the movement comes back?

simply resting for 10 minutes eases it, it feels like a trapped nerve? I'm not sure whether to rest it or stretch it??


3. Have you had back pain before in the past?

no

4. Do you take any medication?

1 x 50g diclofenac per day for minor inflammatory arthitis in fingers/toes

5. Do you notice it at any other time? i.e. apart from running around?

no

6. What happens when you bend over, lean back, twist etc?

no problems

7. Do you think you have "tight" muscles in general

wouldn't say so. I've been playing football for 30 years and know to warm-up/down to avoid muscle pulls

Thanks

[alophysio]

Ok, Thanks for that.

The presence of back pain would exclude the arterial claudication - but i would check with a doctor about that - arteries are not the physio's domain if you know what i mean!

You say it feels like a trapped nerve - it probably is.

The fact that you mention no pain on movement - may actually be from the piriformis muscle - the sciatic nerve "pierces" this muscle as it goes out of the hip and down the leg. If your Piriformis muscle is overactive or spasming or dysfunctional, it can cause your symptoms.

Can you actually put your fingers to the floor when you bend over? A simple photo of you doing this would be nice (no baggy clothes if possible) - we don't need to see your face, more your back and legs please.

Thanks - otherwise go to see a physio who can do all this in person and probably better because he/she can touch and feel things!

[Gav]

will see what I can do, I can touch my toes ok. How do you treat sciatica or is that not physiotherapy? I do have an unusual back condition in that C1 and C2 vertebrae are fused (naturally since birth)! But thats the other end of the spine!!

Thanks for the advice, I'll see a physio

Gav

[alophysio]

We treat sciatica in many and varied ways.

First, find the cause of the problem.

Second, fix the cause of the problem!!

Sounds simple but as you have no doubt found out, it is not so easy to find someone who can do it quickly!

Let us know if you need more info!

[Gav]

Will do, thanks for your help

[Gav]

We treat sciatica in many and varied ways.


Let us know if you need more info!

I have subsequently seen an orthopedic knee specialist who after x-ray has disgnose a tear in the meniscus........while I wait for possible minor surgery on this, are there any exercises, stretches that would help it?

thanks again

[alophysio]

Are you sure it is just X-Rays that he took? It doesn't seem logical to me that you can diagnose meniscal tear from XRays alone.

Does your knee give way or lock or catch at all?

I have seen many meniscal tears but not many with the symptoms that you have...

Good luck!

[Gav]

Are you sure it is just X-Rays that he took? It doesn't seem logical to me that you can diagnose meniscal tear from XRays alone.

Does your knee give way or lock or catch at all?

I have seen many meniscal tears but not many with the symptoms that you have...

Good luck!

More info...

Have seen the specialist orthopedic knee surgeon her ein the UK (Leeds) and....he can't tell for certain it is a meniscal tear from the X-ray, and thinks an MRI scan may prove inconclusive too. He is however fairly certain it is a (rear) meniscal tear (having twisted my knee every which way!) and has referred me to a physio for 6 weeks. If that doesn't improve things he thinks I'll need an Arthroscopy(?)

So I'm off to the physio (though I read that meniscal tears can't heal themselves?)

Cheers

[alophysio]

Good luck. Thanks for the update

[Gav]

yet more info (following first physio session)

I must say how enlightening physiotherapy can be when done by an qualified expert.

Only indication of possible rear meniscus problem is pain when the outside joint of the affected knee is pressed hard. All other parts of the knee pass all the physical tests. Physio reckons it is more likely to be a sciatic problem (as indicated by the numbness from the lower spine area). Being an I.T. worker the office chair (which is wrong in so many areas) is the prime suspect.

I have a number of daily exercises to do, which I will launch myself into asap

I'd love to have one of those machines that passes a current through your knee, I'd wear it 24/7 !