German challenges: are English Physiotherapists really the best in Europe???

[physiobob]

Afterall everyone knows that Aussie Physio's are the best in Europe .... just for fun!

[emad]

Hello All ;

I notcied that the main point is the credits of the course . In most Europe non-English countries the course is 3.5 years ,but it so intensified .The course is between 200-250 credits in a european marker called ESCT credits i think .As well , the point of the how long the year of the study in weeks is crucial and hours .

As for UK physio-registration they make it slight tough with no aim e.g. the adaptation periods .However ,in what way they will go the whole issue is easy in relation to Fedral countries like USA ,Canada and Australia . Where it is so boring to pass a written exam in physiology and anatomy questions while you are really senior physiotherapist .

Cheers
Emad

[Physioindeed]

Hello All ;

In most Europe non-English countries the course is 3.5 years ,but it so intensified .The course is between 200-250 credits in a european marker called ESCT credits i think .As well , the point of the how long the year of the study in weeks is crucial and hours .
...
Cheers
Emad

To provide a few facts: Hi Emad

thanks for your post
I didn't find anything about the European markers you mentioned on the web but I just looked the hours I did within my education in Germany up
We did 1808 practical hours in placements and
3186 hrs theory and treatment lessons at uni.
How does that compare with english physios?
The thing is that english students I talked to didn't rate their education very high themselves. They said that their knowledge (e.g anatomy) wasn't tested regular apart from the final exams. and the students themselves who I spoke to (only three -admittedly) didn't feel confident to work by themselves. As well they didn't do a placement in each main subject during their training which explains why the postgraduate rotation is so important . We did in Musculoskeletal 308hrs Intesive Care Unit /respiratory 308hrs, Neurology 308 hrs, Orthopedics 308hrs, Pediatrics192hrs, Psychiatry 192hrs and Gynecology 192hrs. (most of them in hospitals- five different hospitals in four different citys, one rehabilitation centre, and one private surgery).

I think what bugs me most is that 70% of graduates who don't find a job and who will loose complete confidence in their ability and in the HPC/ NHS/ State. And everybody seems to accept it as god given without the prospect of change (or am I not on the newest stand)

Physiotherapist are there to help patients and everybody is rightly concerned about the quality of service they need to provide, but the organizations who are there to help the physiotherapists (like finding employment after graduation) seem to fail them.
but possibly that is a different discussion and has only inderect effect on the registration for foreigners. I just think that because I am a foreigner I look at the British situation with an outsiders view.... and thanks for reading my monolog to this point

Annette

[emad]

Hello Annette :

I am NOt British , i am there out away of Europe , just i am interested in what is going on through registration all over the Globe .

The real problem is when they are going to assess/evaluate a physiotherapist Education ,on what base are they asess . Let be more clear if a german physiotherapist ( graduated in 1999) applied for registration in Uk in the year 2008 ! Of course , comparing a course from 1999 to 2008 is not fair at all . However , i think the issue of experience is very crucial , because with experience the communication skills are improving which i believe main thin the physiotherapist,s competence .

As for UK , i think the government needs to review the law of physiotherapist grading ,because there are many unemployed graduates and many vacant jobs need seniors only as i read in 1 news agency .

I have read the UK curriculum ,the most interesting is the Reflective physiotherapist producing through that curriculum , and producing a physiotherapist self-dependant through CPD ( Learing ) process and Evidence-Based Practicse , thus what is written through the Officil curriculum . I think the point of the Official Curriculum content and the quality of real physiotherapist teaching is another issue .

I will search for credits links and give you them .

Best Wishes
Emad

[emad]

Annette :
a link for credits in general , you can search this website for physiotherapy you will find much .
http://ec.europa.eu/education/progra...ndex_en.html#1

Cheers
Emad

[Alex.]

Afterall everyone knows that Aussie Physio's are the best in Europe .... just for fun!

....Aha! Why is that?

[angela1]

If you were so pissed off with the whole thing then you shouldn't have bothered. Do you know that 70% of graduates in England didn't get jobs last year - a good reason to make it hard for foreigners wouldn't you say!!

And the two years rotation in public hospitals is not compulsary, it is a recomendation.

I payed a lot of money to work as a physio in Australia (as you will have guessed I come from England). If I wanted to go to NZ it could have been there within 3 months, no exam, no hassel. To be honest I would rather prove my worth and show the Aussies that we are all equal by passing there clinical and 2 written exams.

[oscar]

If you were so pissed off with the whole thing then you shouldn't have bothered. Do you know that 70% of graduates in England didn't get jobs last year - a good reason to make it hard for foreigners wouldn't you say!!

And the two years rotation in public hospitals is not compulsary, it is a recomendation.

I payed a lot of money to work as a physio in Australia (as you will have guessed I come from England). If I wanted to go to NZ it could have been there within 3 months, no exam, no hassel. To be honest I would rather prove my worth and show the Aussies that we are all equal by passing there clinical and 2 written exams.

Hey don't forget the new grads in Scotland and Wales too that can't get jobs !! I think on the whole for the UK it's now around 70-80% unemployment for new graduates......!

[Bananabelly]

I am an Aussie physio working in England and I would have to say, having regularly supervised students here, that the courses ain't that great generally, and though I don't know much about European courses I doubt they are less of a qualification in any way, it's just bureacracy. Though the Aussie course is well respected and 4 years long I still had to do mountains of paperwork to get registered (though no adaption period).
And I know there are exams, etc to get into Oz as a physio, but I think it is slightly more reasonable considering the course is longer than most countries, and in oz (when I was there at least) physiotherapy is almost as hard to get into as medicine, so the calibre of students is very high (usually). Half of the students I get here would never survive an Aussie course.
Hope that isn't too controversial, just treat it as bureacracy and let it swoosh over your head - if you plan to work in the NHS for long you will need to learn that!

[Physioindeed]

Quote from Angela "If you were so pissed off with the whole thing then you shouldn't have bothered. Do you know that 70% of graduates in England didn't get jobs last year - a good reason to make it hard for foreigners wouldn't you say!! And the two years rotation in public hospitals is not compulsary, it is a recomendation. "

You are right telling me of as my original message was written in a short state of bitterness. Apiologies.
I guess as well you are right that the Apologies in the own country should be served first.
But if 70% percent of the first years didn't get any jobs it shows to me that the system is not working very well.
The employers are just not trusting anybody who hasn't gone through the two years rotational system because the HPC is recommending it. But what they are recommending is unrealistic and unfeasible as there are just not enough junior spaces....
It just seems to me like a donkey who tries to bite their own tail. no?
thanks for charing your views,
kind regards
Annette