irish registration

[PHY]

As a returning physio to the island of ireland I think you should review your comments. Your qualification in ireland does need to be recognised in Ireland to work as a physiotherapist but you do not need to be a member of the ISCP if you want to work for yourself. In hospital adverts you must be eligiable for registration. Irish physiotherapists are good but over the past 3 years the quality of some are very poor due to them being allowed to go straight into private practise by themselves. Worse still chartered physiotherapists are now working under and for "physical therapists"...... This really mens the Physiotherapist working for the physio assistant. Physio and physical therapit are not even protected titles in Ireland!! Unlike here in Australia or the U.K. There have also been headlines made by Irish physiotherapists who have advertised courses in Ireland and lying about senior lecturers/Professors attending which has resulted in international appologies in journals and at meetings in my state of New south wales /sydney, melbourne and Perth. Irish physiotherapy is being diluted at the moment and at board meeting in the past 6 months it has been taken that irish physiotherapist seeking to work in Australia and even New Zealand are haveing their qualifications and post grad training looked into due to the issues mentioned above.

[apocalypse]

Hi there,

I'm afraid I won't review my comments. Michal had asked about working in the public health care system and I had rightly said, he cannot work in the public health care system in Ireland unless his qualifications are recognised by the ISCP. When they are recognised he will then become eligible to be a member of the ISCP. There is no requirement to be a member of the ISCP to work in the public health care system but you must be eligible. If you like, I can repeat myself again and quote an Irish Statutory Instrument (thats a European Directive that we must transcribe into law)

i)
The Irish Society of Chartered Physiotherapists (ISCP) is the designated authority acting with the approval of the Minister for Health and Children for the recognition of physiotherapy qualifications in the Republic of Ireland (S.I.139/2008). The Qualification Recognition process is guided by EU Directive 2005/36/EC.

Irish Public Health system:

To be considered for employment in the Irish public health system, all prospective employees must be eligible for membership to the ISCP. To be eligible for membership, you need to have your physiotherapy qualifications recognised by the ISCP.

Irish Private Health sector:

To use the title "Chartered Physiotherapist" in the private sector, you will also need to have your physiotherapy qualifications recognised and subsequently be a current member of the ISCP.

Successful recognition of your physiotherapy qualifications by the ISCP grants eligibility for membership to the ISCP


ii)
"Physio and physical therapist are not even protected titles in Ireland!!" - you say this as if the ISCP have not been owkring on it for 20 years and have not secured the Allied Health Care & Social Professionals Act 2005 and are simply able to change the registration process in Ireland political system.

iii)
Furthermore, your comments regarding poor quality therapists, working for physical therapists (who are apparently physiotherapy assistants), lies about senior lecturers and the New Zealand and Australia board looking into our qualifications more stringently when compared to other countries is unfounded and unfair. I would imagine that there are instances of the above but with over 3500 physiotherapists in Ireland this is an exception and not the rule.

For example, the physio forum normally gets helpful comments or debates on interesting topics. However, I would consider your comment an exception to that rule.

Thank you

[PHY]

Physical therapists are not the same as Physiotherapists in Ireland, They are ruining the Chartered Physios reputations, Some already have been asked to leave conferences in CSP in London, They are not Physiotherapists!!!

Look a senior Lecturer in Ireland/limerick has been made apoligise/ grovel in inthernationl journel of physiotherapy in Australia and Ireland in 2008 because he advertised a course on motor control and lied that Prof Peter O Sullivan from Curtin Uni (which has strong links with Trinity in dublin /and not forgeting manual concepts, tony and kim!!) was going to be there. Peter did not even know about this and there was uproar in the CPD groups about this. This lecturer had already taken money/ thousands of hard working physios money in ireland and has been reprimanded by the ISCP.

Also in the Level 3 Australian institue sports courses many clinical specialists have comented on the recently qualified Irish physiotherapists who are not up to scratch because they have been working under physical therapists in private practise!!!

[apocalypse]

"Physical therapists are not the same as Physiotherapists in Ireland" - one could and would argue that being members of the World Confederation of Physical Therapy means that Chartered Physiotherapists are Physical Therapists regardless of government protection of title. It would be more correct that those whose qualifications are not recognised by the ISCP are not physiotherapists or physical therapists. That is why I tend to put "physical therapists" in comas. But perhaps a moot point.


"I would imagine that there are instances of the above but with over 3500 physiotherapists in Ireland this is an exception and not the rule. "

I didn't disagree with any specific instances. I simply stated that this is an exception and not a rule. Whether or not that happened, which I don't disagree has, has nothing to do with the topic of conversation here which is Irish registration.

Furthermore, unless you are a clinical specialist on level 3 Australian Institute of Sport course then I cannot see how you would come by this information. I sincerely doubt that there is an epidemic in the country that Irish physiotherapy graduates are working for "physical therapists" so much so that clinical specialists in Australia are commenting on it, half a world away. And seeing as I am a graduate, I feel that I am in a good position to know this. Also, why would Irish graduates be going for Level 3 courses, surely they would be best suited in Level 1 courses.

If you spent less time worrying about "physical therapists" and more time into informing the public of the benefits of physiotherapy and the role of physiotherapy we would be much better off. More to the point, I'm sure the Graduate Working Party and the Protection of Title Working Party within the ISCP would be more than happy to have you on board with your enthusiasm on the subject instead of being on forums giving out. There number is 01 - 4022148.
Additional Comment I forgot:
"Look a senior Lecturer in Ireland/limerick has been made apoligise/ grovel in inthernationl journel of physiotherapy in Australia and Ireland in 2008 because he advertised a course on motor control and lied that Prof Peter O Sullivan from Curtin Uni (which has strong links with Trinity in dublin /and not forgeting manual concepts, tony and kim!!) was going to be there. Peter did not even know about this and there was uproar in the CPD groups about this. This lecturer had already taken money/ thousands of hard working physios money in ireland and has been reprimanded by the ISCP. "

And could you qualify this please. What journal? How do you know he was reprimanded by the ISCP? The professional procedures committee is a confidential forum and as far as I am aware, there is nothing specifically that he may or may not have done to contrary the Rules oF Professional Conduct. Furthermore, I would suggest that you are careful with any slanderous talk. If it is the same person that I am thinking of s/he has giving many years of service to the physio profession and the ISCP and should not be spoken of in the way that you are suggesting.
Thank you.

[PHY]

In Australia here discussions are very, very open and to the point. The ISCP are aware of what happen to the named professor below as was all of the APA when the apology was made in our journal as well. The discussion has arose of the training under physical therapsist as we are definitly not the same. The experienced state registered chartered physiotherapists are having problems with thoses trained under physical therapists and this is being discussed more and more at courses and conferences since the high influx of northern hemisphere physios since 2006 when there were lack of graduatee jobs. We understand quite a lot about the irish physio scene as many fellow Australians lecture and travel for conferences as well as many Irish chartered physiotherapists completing their masters over here are voicieng their concerns on the influence of physical therapists

[apocalypse]

"In Australia here discussions are very, very open and to the point."
- does that mean all Australians or specifically physiotherapists. Does include al conversations or just physio specific ones. I think that is a ridiculous point. Again, you suggest that Clinical Specialist on Level 3 Institute of Sport have issue with Irish graduates. How are you privvy to this information (apart from your very frank and open Australian conversations).

All members of the World Confedeartion of Physical Therapy are Physical Therapists. The APA and ISCP are members therefore use the title physiotherapist, chartered physiotherapist and physical therapist interchangeably. I see from your handle that you have a British flag. If you have registered with the HPC your card will read Physiotherapist/Physical Therapist.

Again, I refute the fact that there is an epidemic of Irish physio gradutes working under physical therapists. You have no proof only unfounded anecdotal evidence (I presume from these frank and open Australian discussions).

"The ISCP are aware of what happen to the named professor below as was all of the APA when the apology was made in our journal as well." again, I'll make the point that whether or not the ISCP is aware of what has happened has nothing to do with them. The ISCP are not a compulsory body to join nor are they regulators of physiotherapists in Ireland. Rather, they have 'Rules of Professional Conduct' which memebrs abide to agree by and if they have been broken they will be reprimanded, in a confidential fashion, by the Professional Procedures Committee - none of which you would be privvy to. Furthermore, I have asked you to quantify your suggestion and as yet, you have not offered the journal article.

Might I add, we're flogging a dead horse here and this thread is also not the appropriate place to do it. I'm happy to let you have the last (open and frank Australian) word. My reply will be the exact same as it has been in my previous three posts.


Thank you